Re: [Zope3-dev] Hyping Zope3 contest? (was: Selecting a code name)

2006-02-09 Thread Martijn Faassen

Gary Poster wrote:
[snip]

You say this in your other message:

Somehow people don't seem to be discussing other activities much in  the 
recent threads, such as the writing intro text, of tutorials,  designing 
and presenting screencasts, gathering links and other  information.



Seems like just the sort of individual things that a split-up  
competition would be good for, to me.  Add in something silly, like  
most fun logo or silliest slogan, just for spice, and it even sounds  
like you have a nice balance of categories.


I fear that a split up competition will have a lot of people come up 
with slogans, some with logos, and nobody with a decent tutorial.


Your list also sounds like things that can be done out of the context  
of a grand website effort, and used as useful raw materials for such  an 
effort.


Again, I believe that without fixing Zope's web presence all other Zope 
marketing activities are pretty much futile. *Within the context* of the 
zope web presence this can work, of course, but I expect people to do a 
bit more work than just talk.


I may be wrong about this; if so please give me the reasons I'm missing 
why a slogan or logo in isolation would really help Zope's marketing.


Whatever, I was only volunteering to try and help.  I'm beyond,  beyond 
swamped.  I'm thrilled that folks are working on the zope.org  site.  
Thank you. 


I'm not doing much, but I took a few hours a few months ago to write 
some text, and since then I'm spending time trying to get other people 
to do some bits as well. Some people have been doing so. I think if we 
can just keep this up we can get somewhere.


Perhaps other loose boutique sites, as I had  envisioned, 
for individual projects such as the Zope 3 effort, can  grow at a later 
time.


Right now I expect we may end up doing the following:

* create a boutique site for Zope. No community features, but nice 
presentation and intro text, and download information for Zope.


* from this, create a resource for zope 3 in the form of tutorials, 
screencasts. This may be on another site or part of the original site. I 
think we'll get the most energy in producing Zope 3 compared to Zope 2, 
so we'll go with the flow.


* retire zope.org as much as possible and replace it with the new 
frontend. Quite possible we cannot do this straight away at all - We 
need it for all the resources hidden away in it, and I worry about 
breaking links, so this is a problem. We also have a working zope 
extension upload system on there that I worry about replacing. Just 
replacing its outer layer with a boutique website of Zope may however be 
enough already.


I'm happy to see a competition for a boutique site, and whether people 
present a new zope.org or zope3.org is up to them; this may influence 
whether we end up with a separate zope3.org or an integrated zope.org.


Regards,

Martijn
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Re: [Zope3-dev] Hyping Zope3 contest? (was: Selecting a code name)

2006-02-09 Thread Lennart Regebro
On 2/9/06, Martijn Faassen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I fear that a split up competition will have a lot of people come up
 with slogans, some with logos, and nobody with a decent tutorial.

Well, that may be true. But on the other hand, if there are people
working on a decent tutorial now, then they will probably have no
competition anyway, and if nobody is working on a tutorial now, or
during a tutorial competition, then we are in trouble anyway.

 Again, I believe that without fixing Zope's web presence all other Zope
 marketing activities are pretty much futile.

Yup.

 I may be wrong about this; if so please give me the reasons I'm missing
 why a slogan or logo in isolation would really help Zope's marketing.

It wouldn't. I guess the idea is to get more people involved in
helping Zope3s marketing. A competition may not be the answer. But
then again, it might. :)

The alternative is to design by comittee, which is what gave us the
current zope.org. That took a very long time, and it seems nobody is
happy with the results...

 * create a boutique site for Zope. No community features, but nice
 presentation and intro text, and download information for Zope.

Yes, this is what we should concentrate on. And maybe we don't need to
compete about everything, but how about making a competition for a
flash-demo? Yes, I want a flash-demo. No, I don't know how to make
one.

 I'm happy to see a competition for a boutique site, and whether people
 present a new zope.org or zope3.org is up to them; this may influence
 whether we end up with a separate zope3.org or an integrated zope.org.

I think we should definitely go for zope3.org, both to separate Zope2
and Zope3 and because zope.org currently is such a vast mess that
replacing it is pretty much out of the question.

If we start to think about replacing it in the future, the way to go
in my opinion is to make many separate microsites with separate aims,
and only one thing in common: logins.

collectors.zope.org
products.zope.org
devwiki.zope.org
news.zope.org
whatever.zope.org
somethingelse.zope.org

This way upgrades in the future can become easier as we can do one
site at a time, instead of necessarily doing all of Zope.org at one
time.

But first, lets concentrate on the boutique for Zope3. That's what's
most desperately needed.
--
Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/
CPS Content Management http://www.cps-project.org/
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Re: [Zope3-dev] Hyping Zope3 contest? (was: Selecting a code name)

2006-02-08 Thread Gary Poster


On Feb 8, 2006, at 7:53 AM, Lennart Regebro wrote:


Now, who can organise this hype-contest that everybody seemed tothink
was a good idea?


It wasn't a mandate.  I got three kinds of responses (publicly and  
privately):


1 Yes, go for it.

2 If we split it up so that it's not a website contest but a contest  
for individual elements (logo, copy, concept, layout) then yes, go  
for it.


3 We're already making an effort on something like this on the zope- 
web list and elsewhere.  (I interpreted this as no, don't do it.)


I think the split-up contest--response 2--that Joel Moxley proposed  
on the list and others proposed privately to me sounds good.  If  
others feel that it would stomp on their efforts, though, I'm not  
thrilled about angering people who have already spent significant  
time.  I'd like them to step up and be involved, at least to bless  
the contest, and ideally to be a part of it.  If they don't want it,  
then they should say so and see if we can work out a compromise.


We already have two logo entries.  :-)  If I don't see any  
conversation or disagreement about this--or an offer from the ones  
already working on this stuff to organize the contest--then I'll  
propose an invitation email in a day or two.


Gary
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Re: [Zope3-dev] Hyping Zope3 contest? (was: Selecting a code name)

2006-02-08 Thread Lennart Regebro
On 2/8/06, Gary Poster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I think the split-up contest--response 2--that Joel Moxley proposed
 on the list and others proposed privately to me sounds good.  If
 others feel that it would stomp on their efforts, though, I'm not
 thrilled about angering people who have already spent significant
 time.

Well... if they have spent time on it, they should have a good head start. ;-)
But I understand what you mean.

 I'd like them to step up and be involved, at least to bless
 the contest, and ideally to be a part of it.  If they don't want it,
 then they should say so and see if we can work out a compromise.

Right.
--
Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/
CPS Content Management http://www.cps-project.org/
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Re: [Zope3-dev] Hyping Zope3 contest? (was: Selecting a code name)

2006-02-08 Thread kit BLAKE
2006/2/8, Lennart Regebro [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

  This slogan pops up in my mind: Zope^3 - Think out of the box!

 Very nice, but writing Zope^3 is too complicated, I hardly know where
 to find the ^ on my keyboard. ;-)

Lennart, you must be sending your 'courriels' with a French keyboard.
The caret can't be too hard to locate, the French invented it. :^)
kit

ps: limi, the capped last name has nothing to do with a French cherie,
the Asian countries have embraced the practice for us
limited-character-set Westerners. You should know that, ahem


--
kit BLAKE
Infrae · infrae.com · +31 10 243 7051
Hoevestraat 10 · 3033GC · Rotterdam · The Netherlands
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Re: [Zope3-dev] Hyping Zope3 contest? (was: Selecting a code name)

2006-02-08 Thread Lennart Regebro
On 2/8/06, kit BLAKE [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Lennart, you must be sending your 'courriels' with a French keyboard.

Yes. But I use a Swedish keyboard layout. :-)
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Re: [Zope3-dev] Hyping Zope3 contest? (was: Selecting a code name)

2006-02-08 Thread Martijn Faassen

Gary Poster wrote:
[snip]
I think the split-up contest--response 2--that Joel Moxley proposed  on 
the list and others proposed privately to me sounds good.  


I'm not really thrilled about that idea. Marketing needs to be a unified 
message, and if you split it up you'll likely end up with a hodgepodge. 
You also risk everybody doing the easy parts and nobody working on the 
parts that cost some energy.


A contest for website ideas (with a bunch of webpages in a layout and 
with some good text and graphics) sounds better. It's more likely to 
result in one of more visions we can live with. If you're interested in 
new names for Zope, logos, and so on, that's fine, as you can present it 
in the context of a larger message. Currently I'm not at all convinced 
we need an additional name for Zope 3 or work on the logo, but a good 
presentation could definitely change my mind.


A mockup of a homepage and a bunch of subpages, together with the 
textual part of the marketing message shouldn't be too big a hindrance 
to get a few good submissions.


Regards,

Martijn
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Re: [Zope3-dev] Hyping Zope3 contest? (was: Selecting a code name)

2006-02-08 Thread Gary Poster


On Feb 8, 2006, at 6:34 PM, Martijn Faassen wrote:


Gary Poster wrote:
[snip]
I think the split-up contest--response 2--that Joel Moxley  
proposed  on the list and others proposed privately to me sounds  
good.


I'm not really thrilled about that idea. Marketing needs to be a  
unified message, and if you split it up you'll likely end up with a  
hodgepodge. You also risk everybody doing the easy parts and nobody  
working on the parts that cost some energy.


A contest for website ideas (with a bunch of webpages in a layout  
and with some good text and graphics) sounds better. It's more  
likely to result in one of more visions we can live with. If you're  
interested in new names for Zope, logos, and so on, that's fine, as  
you can present it in the context of a larger message. Currently  
I'm not at all convinced we need an additional name for Zope 3 or  
work on the logo, but a good presentation could definitely change  
my mind.


A mockup of a homepage and a bunch of subpages, together with the  
textual part of the marketing message shouldn't be too big a  
hindrance to get a few good submissions.


You say this in your other message:

Somehow people don't seem to be discussing other activities much in  
the recent threads, such as the writing intro text, of tutorials,  
designing and presenting screencasts, gathering links and other  
information.



Seems like just the sort of individual things that a split-up  
competition would be good for, to me.  Add in something silly, like  
most fun logo or silliest slogan, just for spice, and it even sounds  
like you have a nice balance of categories.


Your list also sounds like things that can be done out of the context  
of a grand website effort, and used as useful raw materials for such  
an effort.


Whatever, I was only volunteering to try and help.  I'm beyond,  
beyond swamped.  I'm thrilled that folks are working on the zope.org  
site.  Thank you.  Perhaps other loose boutique sites, as I had  
envisioned, for individual projects such as the Zope 3 effort, can  
grow at a later time.


Gary
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