Re: [Zope3-dev] Hyping Zope3 contest? (was: Selecting a code name)
Gary Poster wrote: [snip] You say this in your other message: Somehow people don't seem to be discussing other activities much in the recent threads, such as the writing intro text, of tutorials, designing and presenting screencasts, gathering links and other information. Seems like just the sort of individual things that a split-up competition would be good for, to me. Add in something silly, like most fun logo or silliest slogan, just for spice, and it even sounds like you have a nice balance of categories. I fear that a split up competition will have a lot of people come up with slogans, some with logos, and nobody with a decent tutorial. Your list also sounds like things that can be done out of the context of a grand website effort, and used as useful raw materials for such an effort. Again, I believe that without fixing Zope's web presence all other Zope marketing activities are pretty much futile. *Within the context* of the zope web presence this can work, of course, but I expect people to do a bit more work than just talk. I may be wrong about this; if so please give me the reasons I'm missing why a slogan or logo in isolation would really help Zope's marketing. Whatever, I was only volunteering to try and help. I'm beyond, beyond swamped. I'm thrilled that folks are working on the zope.org site. Thank you. I'm not doing much, but I took a few hours a few months ago to write some text, and since then I'm spending time trying to get other people to do some bits as well. Some people have been doing so. I think if we can just keep this up we can get somewhere. Perhaps other loose boutique sites, as I had envisioned, for individual projects such as the Zope 3 effort, can grow at a later time. Right now I expect we may end up doing the following: * create a boutique site for Zope. No community features, but nice presentation and intro text, and download information for Zope. * from this, create a resource for zope 3 in the form of tutorials, screencasts. This may be on another site or part of the original site. I think we'll get the most energy in producing Zope 3 compared to Zope 2, so we'll go with the flow. * retire zope.org as much as possible and replace it with the new frontend. Quite possible we cannot do this straight away at all - We need it for all the resources hidden away in it, and I worry about breaking links, so this is a problem. We also have a working zope extension upload system on there that I worry about replacing. Just replacing its outer layer with a boutique website of Zope may however be enough already. I'm happy to see a competition for a boutique site, and whether people present a new zope.org or zope3.org is up to them; this may influence whether we end up with a separate zope3.org or an integrated zope.org. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Hyping Zope3 contest? (was: Selecting a code name)
On 2/9/06, Martijn Faassen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I fear that a split up competition will have a lot of people come up with slogans, some with logos, and nobody with a decent tutorial. Well, that may be true. But on the other hand, if there are people working on a decent tutorial now, then they will probably have no competition anyway, and if nobody is working on a tutorial now, or during a tutorial competition, then we are in trouble anyway. Again, I believe that without fixing Zope's web presence all other Zope marketing activities are pretty much futile. Yup. I may be wrong about this; if so please give me the reasons I'm missing why a slogan or logo in isolation would really help Zope's marketing. It wouldn't. I guess the idea is to get more people involved in helping Zope3s marketing. A competition may not be the answer. But then again, it might. :) The alternative is to design by comittee, which is what gave us the current zope.org. That took a very long time, and it seems nobody is happy with the results... * create a boutique site for Zope. No community features, but nice presentation and intro text, and download information for Zope. Yes, this is what we should concentrate on. And maybe we don't need to compete about everything, but how about making a competition for a flash-demo? Yes, I want a flash-demo. No, I don't know how to make one. I'm happy to see a competition for a boutique site, and whether people present a new zope.org or zope3.org is up to them; this may influence whether we end up with a separate zope3.org or an integrated zope.org. I think we should definitely go for zope3.org, both to separate Zope2 and Zope3 and because zope.org currently is such a vast mess that replacing it is pretty much out of the question. If we start to think about replacing it in the future, the way to go in my opinion is to make many separate microsites with separate aims, and only one thing in common: logins. collectors.zope.org products.zope.org devwiki.zope.org news.zope.org whatever.zope.org somethingelse.zope.org This way upgrades in the future can become easier as we can do one site at a time, instead of necessarily doing all of Zope.org at one time. But first, lets concentrate on the boutique for Zope3. That's what's most desperately needed. -- Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/ CPS Content Management http://www.cps-project.org/ ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Hyping Zope3 contest? (was: Selecting a code name)
On Feb 8, 2006, at 7:53 AM, Lennart Regebro wrote: Now, who can organise this hype-contest that everybody seemed tothink was a good idea? It wasn't a mandate. I got three kinds of responses (publicly and privately): 1 Yes, go for it. 2 If we split it up so that it's not a website contest but a contest for individual elements (logo, copy, concept, layout) then yes, go for it. 3 We're already making an effort on something like this on the zope- web list and elsewhere. (I interpreted this as no, don't do it.) I think the split-up contest--response 2--that Joel Moxley proposed on the list and others proposed privately to me sounds good. If others feel that it would stomp on their efforts, though, I'm not thrilled about angering people who have already spent significant time. I'd like them to step up and be involved, at least to bless the contest, and ideally to be a part of it. If they don't want it, then they should say so and see if we can work out a compromise. We already have two logo entries. :-) If I don't see any conversation or disagreement about this--or an offer from the ones already working on this stuff to organize the contest--then I'll propose an invitation email in a day or two. Gary ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Hyping Zope3 contest? (was: Selecting a code name)
On 2/8/06, Gary Poster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think the split-up contest--response 2--that Joel Moxley proposed on the list and others proposed privately to me sounds good. If others feel that it would stomp on their efforts, though, I'm not thrilled about angering people who have already spent significant time. Well... if they have spent time on it, they should have a good head start. ;-) But I understand what you mean. I'd like them to step up and be involved, at least to bless the contest, and ideally to be a part of it. If they don't want it, then they should say so and see if we can work out a compromise. Right. -- Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/ CPS Content Management http://www.cps-project.org/ ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Hyping Zope3 contest? (was: Selecting a code name)
2006/2/8, Lennart Regebro [EMAIL PROTECTED]: This slogan pops up in my mind: Zope^3 - Think out of the box! Very nice, but writing Zope^3 is too complicated, I hardly know where to find the ^ on my keyboard. ;-) Lennart, you must be sending your 'courriels' with a French keyboard. The caret can't be too hard to locate, the French invented it. :^) kit ps: limi, the capped last name has nothing to do with a French cherie, the Asian countries have embraced the practice for us limited-character-set Westerners. You should know that, ahem -- kit BLAKE Infrae · infrae.com · +31 10 243 7051 Hoevestraat 10 · 3033GC · Rotterdam · The Netherlands ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Hyping Zope3 contest? (was: Selecting a code name)
On 2/8/06, kit BLAKE [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lennart, you must be sending your 'courriels' with a French keyboard. Yes. But I use a Swedish keyboard layout. :-) ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Hyping Zope3 contest? (was: Selecting a code name)
Gary Poster wrote: [snip] I think the split-up contest--response 2--that Joel Moxley proposed on the list and others proposed privately to me sounds good. I'm not really thrilled about that idea. Marketing needs to be a unified message, and if you split it up you'll likely end up with a hodgepodge. You also risk everybody doing the easy parts and nobody working on the parts that cost some energy. A contest for website ideas (with a bunch of webpages in a layout and with some good text and graphics) sounds better. It's more likely to result in one of more visions we can live with. If you're interested in new names for Zope, logos, and so on, that's fine, as you can present it in the context of a larger message. Currently I'm not at all convinced we need an additional name for Zope 3 or work on the logo, but a good presentation could definitely change my mind. A mockup of a homepage and a bunch of subpages, together with the textual part of the marketing message shouldn't be too big a hindrance to get a few good submissions. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Hyping Zope3 contest? (was: Selecting a code name)
On Feb 8, 2006, at 6:34 PM, Martijn Faassen wrote: Gary Poster wrote: [snip] I think the split-up contest--response 2--that Joel Moxley proposed on the list and others proposed privately to me sounds good. I'm not really thrilled about that idea. Marketing needs to be a unified message, and if you split it up you'll likely end up with a hodgepodge. You also risk everybody doing the easy parts and nobody working on the parts that cost some energy. A contest for website ideas (with a bunch of webpages in a layout and with some good text and graphics) sounds better. It's more likely to result in one of more visions we can live with. If you're interested in new names for Zope, logos, and so on, that's fine, as you can present it in the context of a larger message. Currently I'm not at all convinced we need an additional name for Zope 3 or work on the logo, but a good presentation could definitely change my mind. A mockup of a homepage and a bunch of subpages, together with the textual part of the marketing message shouldn't be too big a hindrance to get a few good submissions. You say this in your other message: Somehow people don't seem to be discussing other activities much in the recent threads, such as the writing intro text, of tutorials, designing and presenting screencasts, gathering links and other information. Seems like just the sort of individual things that a split-up competition would be good for, to me. Add in something silly, like most fun logo or silliest slogan, just for spice, and it even sounds like you have a nice balance of categories. Your list also sounds like things that can be done out of the context of a grand website effort, and used as useful raw materials for such an effort. Whatever, I was only volunteering to try and help. I'm beyond, beyond swamped. I'm thrilled that folks are working on the zope.org site. Thank you. Perhaps other loose boutique sites, as I had envisioned, for individual projects such as the Zope 3 effort, can grow at a later time. Gary ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com