Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 web root

2006-02-21 Thread Chris Withers
Shane Hathaway wrote: Page, File, Image, Python Page, SQL Script, and ZPT Page. I suggest that no one should be invited to create these kinds of objects in ZODB; it's a road to misery. I'm sorry, I simply don't agree. I find TTW development (especially with the aid of WebDAV) _exceedingly_

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 web root

2006-02-21 Thread Gary Poster
On Feb 18, 2006, at 3:08 AM, Shane Hathaway wrote: In my last project, reusing the ZMI seemed like a good idea. Maybe that was a bad choice. Do you start with an empty site.zcml? I haven't dared yet. :-) We started mostly from scratch, with various successes and failures as we tried

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 web root

2006-02-21 Thread Shane Hathaway
Gary Poster wrote: On Feb 18, 2006, at 3:08 AM, Shane Hathaway wrote: In my last project, reusing the ZMI seemed like a good idea. Maybe that was a bad choice. Do you start with an empty site.zcml? I haven't dared yet. :-) We started mostly from scratch, with various successes and

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 web root

2006-02-21 Thread ksmith99
I just created mini-cms called GalleryMaker that allows a few web designer friends of mine to easily create and maintain websites for art galleries. It's a huge convenience for me to expose a few items TTW, like .css, some image files, and the contact page they are likely to swap out. Maybe this

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 web root

2006-02-18 Thread Shane Hathaway
Jeff Shell wrote: I guess I still don't understand how you're using Zope 3, because it sounds like you're using it very differently than I am. I've long since abandoned the ZMI. I never see that list of addable objects (in fact, in my newest applications, I completely bypass IAdding). I

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 web root

2006-02-18 Thread Stephan Richter
On Friday 17 February 2006 19:33, Shane Hathaway wrote: That sounds useful.  In fact, doesn't this mean that we can safely move all TTW template and script authoring from Zope 3 into WebDev, where WebDev is a separately installable application? Probably yes. I think a proposal in this

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 web root

2006-02-18 Thread Paul Winkler
On Fri, Feb 17, 2006 at 10:14:50PM -0600, whit wrote: Paul Winkler wrote: +1. The killer moment for me with ZClasses was when I realized I wanted to convert one to a filesytem Product and that meant I had to literally throw away everything and start from scratch. Never again. now, if you

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 web root

2006-02-18 Thread Wade Leftwich
Shane Hathaway wrote: [snip] Yes, that's a valid point. I also stopped myself from listing folders, since a folder is a general organizational tool. Let's just talk about templates and scripts. [snip] I think I've got a decent use case for templates in the ZODB, but I could be wrong. I

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 web root

2006-02-18 Thread Shane Hathaway
Wade Leftwich wrote: Shane Hathaway wrote: [snip] Yes, that's a valid point. I also stopped myself from listing folders, since a folder is a general organizational tool. Let's just talk about templates and scripts. [snip] I think I've got a decent use case for templates in the ZODB, but

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 web root

2006-02-18 Thread Wade Leftwich
Shane Hathaway wrote: Wade Leftwich wrote: Shane Hathaway wrote: [snip] Yes, that's a valid point. I also stopped myself from listing folders, since a folder is a general organizational tool. Let's just talk about templates and scripts. [snip] I think I've got a decent use case

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 web root

2006-02-18 Thread ksmith99
Jeff Shell wrote: I guess I still don't understand how you're using Zope 3, because it sounds like you're using it very differently than I am. I've long since abandoned the ZMI. I never see that list of addable objects (in fact, in my newest applications, I completely bypass IAdding). I

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 web root

2006-02-17 Thread Shane Hathaway
Martin Aspeli wrote: On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 06:35:00 -, Shane Hathaway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, we're still confused. Templates and scripts are code. Should they be in ZODB? Grrr, I hope not. I don't want to suffer that pain, fssync or no fssync. I invented the CMF skins tool

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 web root

2006-02-17 Thread Stephan Richter
On Friday 17 February 2006 18:45, Shane Hathaway wrote: Martin Aspeli wrote: On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 06:35:00 -, Shane Hathaway [EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote: No, we're still confused.  Templates and scripts are code.  Should they  be in ZODB?  Grrr, I hope not.  I don't want to suffer that

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 web root

2006-02-17 Thread Shane Hathaway
Stephan Richter wrote: On Friday 17 February 2006 18:45, Shane Hathaway wrote: User interfaces speak louder than books. Start up Zope 3, log in as a manager, and look at the list of things you can add. It includes DTML Page, File, Image, Python Page, SQL Script, and ZPT Page. I suggest that

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 web root

2006-02-17 Thread Stephan Richter
On Friday 17 February 2006 19:03, Shane Hathaway wrote: There is the WebDev effort that demonstrates some TTW development features that are actually applicable to Zope 3. Since WebDev concentrates on doing components, the results can later be easily exported to a filesystem package. What

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 web root

2006-02-17 Thread Shane Hathaway
Stephan Richter wrote: On Friday 17 February 2006 19:03, Shane Hathaway wrote: There is the WebDev effort that demonstrates some TTW development features that are actually applicable to Zope 3. Since WebDev concentrates on doing components, the results can later be easily exported to a

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 web root

2006-02-17 Thread Gary Poster
On Feb 17, 2006, at 6:45 PM, Shane Hathaway wrote: User interfaces speak louder than books. Start up Zope 3, log in as a manager, and look at the list of things you can add. It includes [...] File, [...] . I suggest that no one should be invited to create these kinds of objects in

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 web root

2006-02-17 Thread Shane Hathaway
Gary Poster wrote: To each his own, I suppose, but I'm surprised you included File in the rant-list. Lots of non-web-design uses want that. We've had our problems with big blobs, but they should be addressed, and in the core, and files should be probably included either in the core or as

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 web root

2006-02-17 Thread Jeff Shell
On 2/17/06, Shane Hathaway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Incidentally, I find it difficult to make any argument about anything because I fully appreciate many sides of the issue. :-) You and me both :) Gary Poster: one could argue that ZODB-based TTW dev got to be so problematic *because* it

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 web root

2006-02-16 Thread Chris Withers
Shane Hathaway wrote: It could turn out that people who don't want ZODB really shouldn't use Zope at all. This has been the case in my experience... Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 web root

2006-02-15 Thread Lennart Regebro
On 2/15/06, Max M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Remember its the Z Object Publishing Enviroment? Hear, hear! -- Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/ CPS Content Management http://www.cps-project.org/ ___ Zope3-dev mailing list

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 web root

2006-02-15 Thread Gary Poster
On Feb 15, 2006, at 4:21 PM, Lennart Regebro wrote: On 2/15/06, Max M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Remember its the Z Object Publishing Enviroment? Hear, hear! +1 (Which, to be clear, does not mean we shouldn't encourage people making it easier to use SQL in Zope. But our strength and

RE: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 web root

2006-02-15 Thread Shaun Cutts
Max M wrote: The problem is that all the people used to LAMP will come to Zope and think Well I will need to think differently here. Thats a bother. I will use sql for everything like usual. And so we will get a lot of duplicated efforts and half-baked Zope developers, who will

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 web root

2006-02-15 Thread Chris Withers
Martin Aspeli wrote: I think that's certainly true for content-centric applications, which is what people seem to build the most of in Zope. But if you were storing 80 million records of numbers and short strings that you needed to query across multiple dimensions, you'd probably put them in

correction (Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 web root)

2006-02-14 Thread Dario Lopez-Kästen
Dario Lopez-Kästen said the following on 2006-02-14 08:17: If the tools and feature that Zope provide become easier to integrate in an non-Zope envireonment, I think that Zope will eventually come out as the tool of choice for any projects that needs to do more than setup a simple website,

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 web root

2006-02-14 Thread Dario Lopez-Kästen
Sidnei da Silva said the following on 2006-02-14 12:15: On Tue, Feb 14, 2006 at 08:17:04AM +0100, Dario Lopez-Kästen wrote: | Shaun Cutts said the following on 2006-02-14 07:37: | I have seriously considered trying out Django and similar tools to see | if they would fit better with the kind of

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 web root

2006-02-14 Thread Gary Poster
On Feb 13, 2006, at 5:36 PM, Martin Aspeli wrote: On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 07:51:34 -, Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scripts and RBDMS are the fast food of the web development world, not the salad. Looks nice, tastes great, eventually leaves you fat and unhealthy. ZODB and maybe

RE: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 web root

2006-02-13 Thread Shaun Cutts
Martin, Here here! I'm just learning to cross the gap starting from the RDBMS side. Just our initial deployment will have a DB growing by about 30K numbers per day, day in and day out. There are various workflows that are driven by this data. The parts of these that need people are now supposed

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 web root

2006-02-13 Thread Dario Lopez-Kästen
Shaun Cutts said the following on 2006-02-14 07:37: Martin, Here here! I'm just learning to cross the gap starting from the RDBMS side. Just our initial deployment will have a DB growing by about 30K numbers per day, day in and day out. There are various workflows that are driven by this data.

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 web root

2006-02-10 Thread Sidnei da Silva
On Fri, Feb 10, 2006 at 11:30:29PM -, Martin Aspeli wrote: | So, I'm serving static content like Apache, I'm interpreting file types | like Apache and I'm using .htaccess files like Apache. But I'm using Zope. | | Why am I not just using Apache? | Would I be learning this beast that is

Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Zope 3 web root

2006-02-10 Thread Shane Hathaway
Martin Aspeli wrote: On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 18:40:51 -, Shane Hathaway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: An idea just occurred to me. I think others have probably had similar ideas, but didn't express it in the right place or time. Part 1: Let's put an Apache-like web root Part 2: Let's add