Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 as a reliable platform?!?

2006-09-11 Thread Chris Withers
Christian Theune wrote: Yes, but how much of this is by necessity and how much is choice? When do we change the policy from make it nicer to make it stable? I kind of had the impression that switching to make it stable is the tenor of this thread. I live in hope ;-) (btw: it particularly

Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 as a reliable platform?!?

2006-09-08 Thread Chris Withers
Christian Theune wrote: But changing APIs is what we do, and what we probably have to do, and probably keep doing. I would prefer to see as much of this as possible turned into the past tense... Yup. But it isn't, yet. Unfortunately. Yes, but how much of this is by necessity and how much is

Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 as a reliable platform?!?

2006-09-08 Thread Christian Theune
Hi, Chris Withers wrote: Christian Theune wrote: But changing APIs is what we do, and what we probably have to do, and probably keep doing. I would prefer to see as much of this as possible turned into the past tense... Yup. But it isn't, yet. Unfortunately. Yes, but how much of this is

Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 as a reliable platform?!?

2006-09-07 Thread Chris Withers
Stephan Richter wrote: I think at the end Jim and I agreed that the zope.* namespace should follow and keep following the current Zope 3 style guide. Other namespaces, such as zc, z3c, lovely, etc can choose their own style guide but must be consistent within the namespace. Sheesh, now

Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 as a reliable platform?!?

2006-09-07 Thread Chris Withers
Christian Theune wrote: But changing APIs is what we do, and what we probably have to do, and probably keep doing. I would prefer to see as much of this as possible turned into the past tense... However, I think, we need to get much more careful with it and maybe we can try harder keeping

Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 as a reliable platform?!?

2006-09-07 Thread Christian Theune
Hi, Chris Withers wrote: Christian Theune wrote: But changing APIs is what we do, and what we probably have to do, and probably keep doing. I would prefer to see as much of this as possible turned into the past tense... Yup. But it isn't, yet. Unfortunately. However, I think, we need to

Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 as a reliable platform?!?

2006-09-06 Thread Chris Withers
Jim Fulton wrote: Christian Theune wrote: Why? Because we keep changing stuff and don't tell people in VERY LARGE LETTERS about it. Actually, you highlighted the wrong bit, the important bit is: BECAUSE WE KEEP CHANGING STUFF This is really the central point (or, at least, IMO, the most

Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 as a reliable platform?!?

2006-09-06 Thread Jim Fulton
On Sep 6, 2006, at 6:41 AM, Chris Withers wrote: Jim Fulton wrote: ... Zope 3 was declared ready for production because people were using it in production, A mistake perhaps? I don't think so. ... People who used Zope 3 should have been made aware of these issues. Maybe there

Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 as a reliable platform?!?

2006-09-05 Thread Stephan Richter
On Tuesday 05 September 2006 08:26, Jim Fulton wrote: I think in the future, we should resist minor api tweaks just to   improve spelling slightly. I disagree, if the API violates the style guide. The point of the style guide is that we have uniform naming. For example, formlib violates the

Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 as a reliable platform?!?

2006-09-05 Thread Jim Fulton
On Sep 5, 2006, at 8:36 AM, Stephan Richter wrote: On Tuesday 05 September 2006 08:26, Jim Fulton wrote: I think in the future, we should resist minor api tweaks just to improve spelling slightly. I disagree, OK, we disagree. if the API violates the style guide. The point of the style

Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 as a reliable platform?!?

2006-09-05 Thread Fred Drake
On 9/5/06, Jim Fulton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On the subject of the style guide, I think that, given that Python has adopted the underscore-naming scheme, we should do the same. Just as with Python, it would *not* be necessary to conform existing APIs to a new style. Hmm. The Z3 style guide

Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 as a reliable platform?!?

2006-09-05 Thread Dieter Maurer
Stephan Richter wrote at 2006-9-5 08:36 -0400: On Tuesday 05 September 2006 08:26, Jim Fulton wrote: I think in the future, we should resist minor api tweaks just to   improve spelling slightly. I disagree, if the API violates the style guide. If only after the API is in widespread use, a

Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 as a reliable platform?!?

2006-09-05 Thread Dieter Maurer
Fred Drake wrote at 2006-9-5 10:50 -0400: ... Hmm. The Z3 style guide has never matched the Python style guide completely, and I think it would do more damage than good to change it. We adopted some things early on in Z3 development that I think helped, but changing it just because more is

Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 as a reliable platform?!?

2006-09-05 Thread Fred Drake
On 9/5/06, Dieter Maurer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I remember right, then I read an important sentence in the Python style guide -- something along the lines: This is a guide: you should follow it but there are occasions when you may not do so with good reasons. I don't know if this means

Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 as a reliable platform?!?

2006-09-05 Thread Christian Theune
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Fred Drake wrote: On 9/5/06, Dieter Maurer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I remember right, then I read an important sentence in the Python style guide -- something along the lines: This is a guide: you should follow it but there are occasions

Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 as a reliable platform?!?

2006-09-05 Thread Dieter Maurer
Fred Drake wrote at 2006-9-5 15:03 -0400: On 9/5/06, Dieter Maurer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I remember right, then I read an important sentence in the Python style guide -- something along the lines: This is a guide: you should follow it but there are occasions when you may not do so with

Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 as a reliable platform?!?

2006-09-05 Thread Stephan Richter
On Tuesday 05 September 2006 15:03, Fred Drake wrote: On 9/5/06, Dieter Maurer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I remember right, then I read an important sentence in the Python style guide -- something along the lines: This is a guide: you should follow it but there are occasions when you may

Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 as a reliable platform?!?

2006-09-04 Thread Chris Withers
Christian Theune wrote: Why? Because we keep changing stuff and don't tell people in VERY LARGE LETTERS about it. Actually, you highlighted the wrong bit, the important bit is: BECAUSE WE KEEP CHANGING STUFF Using Zope 3, and Zope 2 since the Zope 3 stuff started getting merged in is like

Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 as a reliable platform?!?

2006-09-04 Thread Martijn Faassen
Christian Theune wrote: this is a rant. I don't want to be destructive or disruptive, but I feel like I need to turn this up right now. Let's start with something positive: I love Zope 3. I do. I know it almost since the beginning and I see how it works out. But to be honest, I too often get

Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 as a reliable platform?!?

2006-09-04 Thread Martin Aspeli
Martijn Faassen wrote: So, my proposal for Zope 3.4: * have a developer_notes file or directory somewhere. * let this contain the developer-visible changes. * it should be focused on how to change your code. That's the important bit. Motivations and such might also be useful to

Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3 as a reliable platform?!?

2006-09-04 Thread Christian Theune
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi, Martijn Faassen wrote: So, my proposal for Zope 3.4: * have a developer_notes file or directory somewhere. * let this contain the developer-visible changes. * it should be focused on how to change your code. That's the important bit.