Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3.1

2005-10-18 Thread Chris Withers

Roger Ineichen wrote:
We also have to define how Zope3 get installed on a windows 
machine. I don't like the normal installation where is 


located in the 

python installation root right now. 


Is that where it ends up on Linux? If so, then we should 
respect that...


That's not a normal pattern for windows. 


That's not what I asked ;-)


But I agree it's the
way how python application get installed. But that doesn't mean 
it's correct for every usecase.


Yes, but it is here. I prefer the less suprises way of doing things, 
and with zope/python, that means I want packages to end up in 
site-packages, and instance-homes to only contrain instance-specific 
software...



How whould you install two different version of z3 if you share the
libraries? Ok, perhpas that's not a normal use case. But we have to
support this with a installer.


True, I think the normal windows idiot of letting the user specify the 
install location, but default it to the site-packages directory of the 
system python...


I really think mkzopeinstance should be a part of the installation 
process.


maybe, but I usually end up running it often on its own later..


That's not a problem if somebody likes to come to switzerland.
Tell me if you are interessted and I can organize a workshop.


Well, getting people there is all part of the fun of organising a sprint...

I don't understand that, everytime I run a update I backup the 
data before. I don't think that's bad idea.  


Neither do I :-)


But I agree not every
installer supports this. I normaly implement in each installer 
a backup option. You only have to use them if you like it.


...but I don't really think it's the installer's responsibility.

btw, why should we not offer a backup option for the Data.fs 
during backup?


uh?

Chris

--
Simplistix - Content Management, Zope  Python Consulting
   - http://www.simplistix.co.uk
___
Zope3-dev mailing list
Zope3-dev@zope.org
Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com



Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3.1

2005-10-17 Thread Chris Withers

Hi Roger,

Roger Ineichen wrote:

The main question is, what's the base source for build the Zope3
application server. I guess this will be generated by zpkgtools 
in some way.

If I understand zpkgtools correct, we can use it for checkout the
source. 


Right.

The step after the checkout isn't clear to me right now 
for windows.


Tim posted a URL in another thread which I hope should clear that up... 
it may (and hopefully will!) mean more to you than it does for me...


We also have to define how Zope3 get installed on a windows 
machine. I don't like the normal installation where is located in the 
python installation root right now. 


Is that where it ends up on Linux? If so, then we should respect that...

This means we whould offer a 
installation by instance where we don't share the zope/python 
libraries, located in the python installation root, and don't need 
to run mkzopeinstance.


I'm -1 on this...


The best way to do all required steps would be a sprint. I guess
if the right people are there, it's possible to improve all parts
where we need in 3 or 4 days.


I guess you're volunteering to organise one then? ;-)

btw, 
A option for backup the Data.fs should also be integrated in the 
update (installation) process.


Don't really follow that... Backup has nothing to do with setup/install 
for me...


cheers,

Chris

--
Simplistix - Content Management, Zope  Python Consulting
   - http://www.simplistix.co.uk
___
Zope3-dev mailing list
Zope3-dev@zope.org
Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com



RE: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3.1

2005-10-17 Thread Roger Ineichen
Hi Chris

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
 Behalf Of Chris Withers
 Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 10:09 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: zope3-dev@zope.org; 'Tim Peters'
 Subject: Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3.1
 
 Hi Roger,
 
 Roger Ineichen wrote:
  The main question is, what's the base source for build the Zope3
  application server. I guess this will be generated by zpkgtools 
  in some way.
  If I understand zpkgtools correct, we can use it for checkout the
  source. 
 
 Right.
 
  The step after the checkout isn't clear to me right now 
  for windows.
 
 Tim posted a URL in another thread which I hope should clear 
 that up... 
 it may (and hopefully will!) mean more to you than it does for me...
 
  We also have to define how Zope3 get installed on a windows 
  machine. I don't like the normal installation where is 
 located in the 
  python installation root right now. 
 
 Is that where it ends up on Linux? If so, then we should 
 respect that...

That's not a normal pattern for windows. But I agree it's the
way how python application get installed. But that doesn't mean 
it's correct for every usecase.

  This means we whould offer a 
  installation by instance where we don't share the zope/python 
  libraries, located in the python installation root, and don't need 
  to run mkzopeinstance.
 
 I'm -1 on this...

How whould you install two different version of z3 if you share the
libraries? Ok, perhpas that's not a normal use case. But we have to
support this with a installer.

There are two concepts for install applications on windows.

1. Applications can be installed on time on a server if they use hard 
coded version seetings or they will override previouse installtion 
settings in the Software Panel

2. Application can be installed per instance. in this case the insteller
has to use instance settings for store it's info n the Software Panel.
Otheriwse we will override the installation data and are not able to
unsinstall more the one zope3 server.

But this is only required if we don't install the source to the python
installation root.

For me it's a must to install zope3 as a running application rater then
install the source to python on a windows system and use mkzopeinstance.
I really think mkzopeinstance should be a part of the installation 
process.

  The best way to do all required steps would be a sprint. I guess
  if the right people are there, it's possible to improve all parts
  where we need in 3 or 4 days.
 
 I guess you're volunteering to organise one then? ;-)

That's not a problem if somebody likes to come to switzerland.
Tell me if you are interessted and I can organize a workshop.

  btw, 
  A option for backup the Data.fs should also be integrated in the 
  update (installation) process.
 
 Don't really follow that... Backup has nothing to do with 
 setup/install 
 for me...

I don't understand that, everytime I run a update I backup the 
data before. I don't think that's bad idea.  But I agree not every
installer supports this. I normaly implement in each installer 
a backup option. You only have to use them if you like it.

btw, why should we not offer a backup option for the Data.fs 
during backup?

Regards
Roger Ineichen


 cheers,
 
 Chris
 
 -- 
 Simplistix - Content Management, Zope  Python Consulting
 - http://www.simplistix.co.uk
 ___
 Zope3-dev mailing list
 Zope3-dev@zope.org
 Unsub: 
 http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/dev%40projekt01.ch
 
 

___
Zope3-dev mailing list
Zope3-dev@zope.org
Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com



Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3.1

2005-10-14 Thread Chris Withers

Roger Ineichen wrote:

The Zope 3 application server is stable and ready for procuction.
But the Zope3 windows installer isn't.

We really have to improve the installation process and offer 
also a built in service manager where you can start and stop
the server in the future. Also the missing program group isn't 
nice. You really can get lost and won't find the installation source

after you installed Zope3 for run the mkzopeinstance.
Because most people don't realize that the zope 3 source get installed
to the python location.


Roger,

I see you've got some great idea here, what would it take to make them a 
reality?


cheers,

Chris

--
Simplistix - Content Management, Zope  Python Consulting
   - http://www.simplistix.co.uk

___
Zope3-dev mailing list
Zope3-dev@zope.org
Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com



RE: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3.1

2005-10-14 Thread Roger Ineichen
Hi Chris  

 -Original Message-
 From: Chris Withers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 11:46 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: 'Mats Nordgren'; zope3-dev@zope.org
 Subject: Re: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3.1
 
 Roger Ineichen wrote:
  The Zope 3 application server is stable and ready for procuction.
  But the Zope3 windows installer isn't.
  
  We really have to improve the installation process and offer 
  also a built in service manager where you can start and stop
  the server in the future. Also the missing program group isn't 
  nice. You really can get lost and won't find the installation source
  after you installed Zope3 for run the mkzopeinstance.
  Because most people don't realize that the zope 3 source 
 get installed
  to the python location.
 
 Roger,
 
 I see you've got some great idea here, what would it take to 
 make them a 
 reality?


The main question is, what's the base source for build the Zope3
application server. I guess this will be generated by zpkgtools 
in some way.
If I understand zpkgtools correct, we can use it for checkout the
source. The step after the checkout isn't clear to me right now 
for windows.

zpkgtools dosn't offer a way to get a running buildout where is 
needed for build the installer .exe right now. But I guess we
can enhance zpkgtools for what we need. Or implement another
python script where will build our installer. The python script
where we use right now uses the default python concept for
build the .exe file. That's why we have all this restrictions.

We also have to define how Zope3 get installed on a windows 
machine. I don't like the normal installation where is located in the 
python installation root right now. This means we whould offer a 
installation by instance where we don't share the zope/python 
libraries, located in the python installation root, and don't need 
to run mkzopeinstance.

Then we can think about how we can integrate a windows install builder.
This means it should be possible to run a pyhton script where will 
create a configuration script for the install builder like BitRock 
or InnoSetup.
This is not very hard since install builder like BitRock can be used from
commando line and use a XML file as the configuration for building
a installer .exe. This part could be automated and since BitRock 
runs on all OS, we could even build a windows installer on a linux 
box. Only for testing whould we need a windows box.

If this main concept works, we can think about the integration of a 
service manager. I guess there are some python service mamanger out 
there where we can use and customize.

The best way to do all required steps would be a sprint. I guess
if the right people are there, it's possible to improve all parts
where we need in 3 or 4 days.

btw, 
A option for backup the Data.fs should also be integrated in the 
update (installation) process.

Regards
Roger Ineichen 

 cheers,
 
 Chris
 
 -- 
 Simplistix - Content Management, Zope  Python Consulting
 - http://www.simplistix.co.uk
 
 

___
Zope3-dev mailing list
Zope3-dev@zope.org
Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com



RE: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3.1

2005-10-13 Thread Mats Nordgren
Bolotov,

Zope 3.1 is definitely ready for production use.  Zope-3.1.0-win32-py2.4.exe
is a Windows executable.  Just double click and install.

When you have installed the Zope you need to go to c:\Python24\Scripts and
run the mkzopeinstance.bat.  Specify an install path to your zope instance,
username, and password.  Now go to [instance]/bin and run runzope.bat.  Zope
will be accessible at http://localhost:8080.

Any development will be done in [instance]/lib/python.  Configuration will
be done in [instance]/etc.  I suggest you read Stephan Richters development
guide at
http://www.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/FrontPage/Z
ope3Book or try Benji Yorks quickstart at
http://www.benjiyork.com/quick_start.

That should be a good start, after that may God help you :)

Sincerely,

gnosis

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Bolotov Pavel
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 10:09 AM
To: zope3-dev@zope.org
Subject: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3.1

Hi zope3-dev,

I really frustrated about Zope 3.1
Is Zope 3.1 is more than ready for production use ?

Did you try to install
Zope-3.1.0.win32-py2.4.exe on Windows XP ?
the zope run script is for Linux and even if
you manage to run Zope 3.1, it doesn't work

in README.txt
Creating a Zope instance home
doesn't need -u or -d parameters

and 
Starting Zope
-

XXX to be written

Pavel.




__ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com
___
Zope3-dev mailing list
Zope3-dev@zope.org
Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/mats%40ronin-group.org

___
Zope3-dev mailing list
Zope3-dev@zope.org
Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com



RE: [Zope3-dev] Zope 3.1

2005-10-13 Thread Roger Ineichen
Hi 

[...]
 Bolotov,
 
 Zope 3.1 is definitely ready for production use.  
 Zope-3.1.0-win32-py2.4.exe
 is a Windows executable.  Just double click and install.
 
 When you have installed the Zope you need to go to 
 c:\Python24\Scripts and
 run the mkzopeinstance.bat.  Specify an install path to your 
 zope instance,
 username, and password.  Now go to [instance]/bin and run 
 runzope.bat.  Zope
 will be accessible at http://localhost:8080.

I think we should change this installation process in the 
future for windows. 


[...]
 
 Hi zope3-dev,
 
 I really frustrated about Zope 3.1
 Is Zope 3.1 is more than ready for production use ?
 
 Did you try to install
 Zope-3.1.0.win32-py2.4.exe on Windows XP ?
 the zope run script is for Linux and even if
 you manage to run Zope 3.1, it doesn't work
 
 in README.txt
 Creating a Zope instance home
 doesn't need -u or -d parameters
 
 and 
 Starting Zope
 -
 
 XXX to be written
 
 Pavel.

I agree with you.

The Zope 3 application server is stable and ready for procuction.
But the Zope3 windows installer isn't.

We really have to improve the installation process and offer 
also a built in service manager where you can start and stop
the server in the future. Also the missing program group isn't 
nice. You really can get lost and won't find the installation source
after you installed Zope3 for run the mkzopeinstance.
Because most people don't realize that the zope 3 source get installed
to the python location.

Regards
Roger Ineichen

Projekt01 GmbH
www.projekt01.ch
_
END OF MESSAGE 

___
Zope3-dev mailing list
Zope3-dev@zope.org
Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com