Re: [Zope3-Users] Re: ZCML, practicality, purity (was Excellent perspective...)

2006-01-17 Thread Martijn Faassen
Jeff Shell wrote: [snip lots of good stuff about configuration in python code and its drawbacks] But if that were a route one decided to use, one would have to lay down VERY strict rules. Otherwise we lose all the benefits of the Component Architecture and start heading back into a

Re: [Zope3-Users] Re: ZCML, practicality, purity (was Excellent perspective...)

2005-12-25 Thread Shane Hathaway
Alen Stanisic wrote: On Fri, 2005-12-23 at 11:25 -0500, Stephan Richter wrote: [...] ZCML is a great way of getting a quick overview on how things hang together. I agree, I found ZCML very useful when trying to learn how Zope3 components work. Oh humbug. Every time I've wanted to find

Re: [Zope3-Users] Re: ZCML, practicality, purity (was Excellent perspective...)

2005-12-23 Thread Jeff Shell
On 12/23/05, Shane Hathaway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeff Shell wrote: I just believe - heavily - after many of my Zope 2 experiences that configuration as done by ZCML should be as separate from the code itself as possible. If it's going to be in the same programming language, it needs

Re: [Zope3-Users] Re: ZCML, practicality, purity (was Excellent perspective...)

2005-12-23 Thread Stephan Richter
On Thursday 22 December 2005 18:48, Jeff Shell wrote: Other problems that I've had with Python based configuration in the past has involved not knowing when to do the configuration. Do I want to register the class I just defined in the module code? class Foo(...):     pass

Re: [Zope3-Users] Re: ZCML, practicality, purity (was Excellent perspective...)

2005-12-23 Thread Shane Hathaway
Jeff Shell wrote: And I think that's where I worry. With ZCML, name resolution happens very late. This seems to cut down on the problems that I've had with Zope 2 style configuration. If imports are in the top of the module, as most developers are used to doing, then they're executed as the

Re: [Zope3-Users] Re: ZCML, practicality, purity (was Excellent perspective...)

2005-12-22 Thread Stephan Richter
On Thursday 22 December 2005 09:23, Martin Aspeli wrote: So it's very refreshing to see Zope 3 without ZCML.  I hope the trend continues. I think Philipp makes what in my limited understanding is a very good   point here:

Re: [Zope3-Users] Re: ZCML, practicality, purity (was Excellent perspective...)

2005-12-22 Thread Chris McDonough
On Dec 22, 2005, at 12:05 PM, Shane Hathaway wrote: Time and again people fail to realize that Zope 3 wants to create the low level framework right first, and only after that add high level simplifications and shortcuts to have less configuration and provide fastest developer exeperience.

Re: [Zope3-Users] Re: ZCML, practicality, purity (was Excellent perspective...)

2005-12-22 Thread Florent Guillaume
On 22 Dec 2005, at 18:09, Chris McDonough wrote: On Dec 22, 2005, at 12:05 PM, Shane Hathaway wrote: Time and again people fail to realize that Zope 3 wants to create the low level framework right first, and only after that add high level simplifications and shortcuts to have less

Re: [Zope3-Users] Re: ZCML, practicality, purity (was Excellent perspective...)

2005-12-22 Thread Shane Hathaway
[Florent] Time and again people fail to realize that Zope 3 wants to create the low level framework right first, and only after that add high level simplifications and shortcuts to have less configuration and provide fastest developer exeperience. Of course people aren't attracted to Zope 3

Re: [Zope3-Users] Re: ZCML, practicality, purity (was Excellent perspective...)

2005-12-22 Thread Jim Fulton
Chris McDonough wrote: On Dec 22, 2005, at 12:05 PM, Shane Hathaway wrote: Time and again people fail to realize that Zope 3 wants to create the low level framework right first, and only after that add high level simplifications and shortcuts to have less configuration and provide

Re: [Zope3-Users] Re: ZCML, practicality, purity (was Excellent perspective...)

2005-12-22 Thread Jim Fulton
Jean-Marc Orliaguet wrote: Shane Hathaway wrote: ... The problem with ZCML is not the language (XML). Writing the same description in python would not address such issues as: - when looking at a component, how can I know how it is wired inside the application without doing a grep on 100

Re: [Zope3-Users] Re: ZCML, practicality, purity (was Excellent perspective...)

2005-12-22 Thread Jean-Marc Orliaguet
Jim Fulton wrote: Jean-Marc Orliaguet wrote: The problem with ZCML is not the language (XML). Writing the same description in python would not address such issues as: - when looking at a component, how can I know how it is wired inside the application without doing a grep on 100 files? -

Re: [Zope3-Users] Re: ZCML, practicality, purity (was Excellent perspective...)

2005-12-22 Thread Jeff Shell
On 12/22/05, Shane Hathaway [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [Shane] Are you sure ZCML is The Right Way? I know its purpose (since I helped invent Zope 3): to combine configurations by multiple developers without imposing a particular workflow. However, I maintain that Python code could do the job