Re: [Zope] Newbie questions about MVC, Continuations, Persistence

2006-07-07 Thread Chris McDonough

Hi Andrew,

MVC is a pattern rather than a technology so it's mostly up to you to  
implement.  Zope, the framework, doesn't mandate its use but it does  
provide facilities that make it easy to implement (via python  
scripts, Five views and templates, and other things).


Zope isn't a continuation-based framework.  Use sessions instead.

Zope's ZODB is an object persistence engine roughly equivalent to  
Hibernate.  It is however, not accessible via Java.


Zope is written in Python, not Java, so reusing your existing  
libraries would be an exercise in bridging Python and Java (maybe via  
web services or a plain old fire-off-a-Java-process-from-within-zope- 
and-communicate-with-it-over-its-stdin).


Trust Commerce has a very nice Python library for merchant banking:   
http://www.trustcommerce.com/


In general, if you're looking to continue implementing the bulk of  
your application in Java, Zope may not be for you unless you use it  
for some very specific piece that has very well-defined integration  
requirements.


- C


On Jul 7, 2006, at 1:59 PM, Andrew Madu wrote:


Hi,
I am completely new to the world of Zope and would like to know how  
zope handles the following:


1. MVC
2. Continuations
3. Persistence ala Hibernate

I have an existing cocoon project, 2.1.8, which I was contemplating  
on moving either over to webobjects or zope. I have a number of  
java classes which I would like to continue to use and wondered  
whether zope would be able to plug into these classes, or are am I  
looking at a complete re-build for those as well? One major issue I  
have is with a paypal SDK I am currently testing which handles  
merchant banking, are there any merchant banking SDK's out there  
which are zope compliant that anyone know of?


regards

Andrew
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Re: [Zope] Newbie Questions - many-many relationships? Zope 2 or 3?

2005-07-02 Thread Jim Vine
Hi,

I hope it's not considered bad form to answer ones
own questions on this board, but I think I've got it
sussed.

Reading through the ZWiki source from
http://svn.zope.org I noticed the following line in
the implementations:

from zope.app.container.contained import Contained 

I added this to mine, and it has cleared up the error
a treat.

Thanks,
Jim

PS - In scrabling around the net trying to solve this
I read somewhere (I think it was a Python Tutorial)
the following advice:

Use the source (Luke...)

I can strongly recommend to any other newbies looking
for examples to take a look at to try out ZWiki - it's
got a reasonably small number of interfaces and
classes, so you can get your head around it, and it
covers useful things like containment.

--- Jim Vine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hello again,
 
 So, following the recommendations from the board I
 have settled on route 3 - developing a Python
 Product, using Zope 3. I've been refering a lot to
 the
 Zope 3 Book (particularly chapter 13 onwards) and
 have
 progressed somewhat.
 
 I've created a PropertyFolder class, which can
 hold
 Property obects, and following the example in the
 book
 I've been able to make it hold *only* Property
 objects.
 
 My Property class is proving a little more
 difficult, however. When I've tried to make it along
 the same lines as the message class in the book, I
 run into difficulties - it seems to be some sort of
 problem with inheriting from multiple classes /
 interfaces. My workaround has been that I can
 include
 my __setitem__.precondition within the main
 IProperty
 interface, and make that subclass from IContainer
 instead of Interface. This works for me, because I'm
 not going to want Property objects to contain other
 Property objects, but I really haven't been able to
 track down why it should work for the message board,
 but not for my classes / interfaces. The errors I
 was
 getting before my work around seemed to be
 indicating
 that it wasn't a container, although I was
 subclassing
 BTreeContainer, and implementing three interfaces
 (one
 and Interface, one and IContained, and one
 IContainer).  Mostly this presented itself as Zope
 complaining about using __len__ on the object. (As I
 say, I have worked around this, and mention it
 mostly
 in case it sheds any light on the issue below...)
 
 My current problem, however, is proving harder to
 work
 around. I want my Property objects to be able to
 contain Images, and sets of attributes. (A typical
 set
 of attributes would describe what is in the
 kitchen).
 I have created interfaces IAttribSet(Interface),
 IAttribSetContainer(IContainer) and
 IAttribSetKitchen(IAttribSet); and classes AttribSet
 (implements IAttribSet and IAttribSetContained) and
 AttribSetKitchen (implements IAttribSetKitchen). I
 am
 using IAttribSetContained to create a __parent__
 ContainerTypesConstraint. I have wired up the
 kitchen
 attrib set in .zcml files.
 
 When I 'turn off' implementing IAttribSetContained,
 my
 kitchen attrib set is working fine, in that I can
 add
 it anywhere, and edit it. However, when I try to add
 a
 condition saying where it can go (i.e. I only want
 it
 to be within Property objects) it correctly only
 appears as an Add-menu item within Property objects,
 but on adding it, I get an error, saying
 AttribSetKitchen instance has no attribute
 '__parent__'. My Property and PropertyFolder
 objects
 are implemented as BTreeContainers.
 
 I'm really quite stumped by this, so I would
 appreciate any guidance that could be provided on
 tracking down the source of the errors.
 
 Thanks,
 Jim
 
 
 
 --- Lennart Regebro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  On 6/22/05, Jim Vine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
   I think I've convinced myself that the
 complexity
  of
   my app takes it beyond method 1, but I'm
 strugling
  to
   get my head around the implications of selecting
   method 2 or 3. Am I right in thinking that
 either
  of
   these will result in my building a Product? 
  
  Yes.
  
   If I
   want to add extra feature to my product on the
   development server and then port them to the
 live
   server (with all the data on the live server
 being
   left in tact), will selection of either of these
   particularly help or hinder me in this?
  
  I don't know, because when I tried 2., it turned
 out
  to be quite
  complicated, and I never understood how to do it.
 So
  I did 3. And
  afterwards I have realized that even if you do
  understand how to do 2,
  the fact that you do most of your stuff in the
  restricted python
  scripts and dtml or ZPT, means that you have tons
 of
  limitations to go
  around.
  
  In addition to that, you can't easily use any
 proper
  editors to edit
  the code, which is very annoying.
  
  Method 2 (aka ZClasses) simply seem to offer
 exactly
  zero benefits,
  and loads of drawbacks.
  
  Also, as mentioned earlier, unless you want to
 build
  your application
  on top of one of the Zope2 content management
  systems around 

Re: [Zope] Newbie Questions - many-many relationships? Zope 2 or 3?

2005-07-01 Thread Jim Vine
Hello again,

So, following the recommendations from the board I
have settled on route 3 - developing a Python
Product, using Zope 3. I've been refering a lot to the
Zope 3 Book (particularly chapter 13 onwards) and have
progressed somewhat.

I've created a PropertyFolder class, which can hold
Property obects, and following the example in the book
I've been able to make it hold *only* Property
objects.

My Property class is proving a little more
difficult, however. When I've tried to make it along
the same lines as the message class in the book, I
run into difficulties - it seems to be some sort of
problem with inheriting from multiple classes /
interfaces. My workaround has been that I can include
my __setitem__.precondition within the main IProperty
interface, and make that subclass from IContainer
instead of Interface. This works for me, because I'm
not going to want Property objects to contain other
Property objects, but I really haven't been able to
track down why it should work for the message board,
but not for my classes / interfaces. The errors I was
getting before my work around seemed to be indicating
that it wasn't a container, although I was subclassing
BTreeContainer, and implementing three interfaces (one
and Interface, one and IContained, and one
IContainer).  Mostly this presented itself as Zope
complaining about using __len__ on the object. (As I
say, I have worked around this, and mention it mostly
in case it sheds any light on the issue below...)

My current problem, however, is proving harder to work
around. I want my Property objects to be able to
contain Images, and sets of attributes. (A typical set
of attributes would describe what is in the kitchen).
I have created interfaces IAttribSet(Interface),
IAttribSetContainer(IContainer) and
IAttribSetKitchen(IAttribSet); and classes AttribSet
(implements IAttribSet and IAttribSetContained) and
AttribSetKitchen (implements IAttribSetKitchen). I am
using IAttribSetContained to create a __parent__
ContainerTypesConstraint. I have wired up the kitchen
attrib set in .zcml files.

When I 'turn off' implementing IAttribSetContained, my
kitchen attrib set is working fine, in that I can add
it anywhere, and edit it. However, when I try to add a
condition saying where it can go (i.e. I only want it
to be within Property objects) it correctly only
appears as an Add-menu item within Property objects,
but on adding it, I get an error, saying
AttribSetKitchen instance has no attribute
'__parent__'. My Property and PropertyFolder objects
are implemented as BTreeContainers.

I'm really quite stumped by this, so I would
appreciate any guidance that could be provided on
tracking down the source of the errors.

Thanks,
Jim



--- Lennart Regebro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 6/22/05, Jim Vine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I think I've convinced myself that the complexity
 of
  my app takes it beyond method 1, but I'm strugling
 to
  get my head around the implications of selecting
  method 2 or 3. Am I right in thinking that either
 of
  these will result in my building a Product? 
 
 Yes.
 
  If I
  want to add extra feature to my product on the
  development server and then port them to the live
  server (with all the data on the live server being
  left in tact), will selection of either of these
  particularly help or hinder me in this?
 
 I don't know, because when I tried 2., it turned out
 to be quite
 complicated, and I never understood how to do it. So
 I did 3. And
 afterwards I have realized that even if you do
 understand how to do 2,
 the fact that you do most of your stuff in the
 restricted python
 scripts and dtml or ZPT, means that you have tons of
 limitations to go
 around.
 
 In addition to that, you can't easily use any proper
 editors to edit
 the code, which is very annoying.
 
 Method 2 (aka ZClasses) simply seem to offer exactly
 zero benefits,
 and loads of drawbacks.
 
 Also, as mentioned earlier, unless you want to build
 your application
 on top of one of the Zope2 content management
 systems around (CPS,
 Plone, Silva, ...) you probably want too use Zope3
 for your
 application development anyway. And then only method
 3 (disk based
 development) is available.
 
 -- 
 Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/
 CPS Content Management
 http://www.cps-project.org/
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Re: [Zope] Newbie Questions - many-many relationships? Zope 2 or 3?

2005-06-22 Thread Lennart Regebro
On 6/21/05, Jim Vine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 but the Zope Book (2.7 version)'s chapter on Creating
 a Basic Application all seems to be through the ZMI.

Unfortunately is the correct word there.

 Now, Zope's original appeal to me was using the
 graphical interface provided by the ZMI to create a
 collection of objects which if you wire them up
 correctly will become an application, a view that I
 think is supported by the Zope Book.

Yeah, me too. Turns out it's not such a hot idea after all. :)
Disk-based products is the way to go (often just called packages in
Zope3).

 However, this
 view, and what I've read about Zope 3 seems to
 indicate that this way of doing things is deprecated.
 Am I correct here? Particularly, if I am building an
 app that I think I will want to add extra
 functionality to after it has been installed and is in
 use, is this a particular reason to avoid developing
 with ZMI?

Yes, that's a good reason to avoid it, because upgrading becomes
problematic. Normally you want one development site and one production
site, and you want to develop the code on the development site and
then move it to the production site. But when the code and the site is
the same, this becomes trickier.

 Now, if the answer to all of that is yes, then I
 think that steers me away from the need for TTW
 development (TTW = Through The Web = ZMI, yes?)

Yup.

 I like the sound of this a bit better - just keep
 records in one place. So, if I've followed, I let the
 the house knows who owns it, and if I go to a
 certain owner's page and want it to give me a list of
 all the houses she owns, it would do a search through
 all the house records to see where she's mentioned.

Yup.

-- 
Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/
CPS Content Management http://www.cps-project.org/
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Re: [Zope] Newbie Questions - many-many relationships? Zope 2 or 3?

2005-06-22 Thread Jim Vine
 On 21.Jun 2005 - 21:59:41, Jim Vine wrote:
  Say, for example that my Zope App in some way has
 a
  House object, which records the address, the
 owner,
  and a short description. Later on, I may wish to
 add
  further fields to record, say, the number of
 bedrooms,
  but the system is already in use - if I've
 developed
  in the ZMI, will this make it harder to make an
  upgrade?
 
 Such a change might not be a problem using ZMI, as
 you can freely add
 properties to any object. You'd have to supply the
 data for all existing
 objects though (but you'd need to do that when using
 a product too).
 

OK, so there are (at least) three ways of doing things
in Zope:

1. Using the ZMI to build an application using
standard objects (classes)
2. Creating new classes to use in your app through the
ZMI.
3. Creating new classes to use in your app in Python.

Most of the Zope Book concentrates on method 1, and
the Extending Zope chapter is about method 2 - it
mentions method 3, but says that it's beyond the scope
of the book.

I think I've convinced myself that the complexity of
my app takes it beyond method 1, but I'm strugling to
get my head around the implications of selecting
method 2 or 3. Am I right in thinking that either of
these will result in my building a Product? If I
want to add extra feature to my product on the
development server and then port them to the live
server (with all the data on the live server being
left in tact), will selection of either of these
particularly help or hinder me in this?

Apologies for asking so many questions, and thanks to
those who have helped so far. I guess I'm just keen to
start from the right place at the beginning, so save
myself headaches further down the line.

Thanks,
Jim





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Re: [Zope] Newbie Questions - many-many relationships? Zope 2 or 3?

2005-06-22 Thread Lennart Regebro
On 6/22/05, Jim Vine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I think I've convinced myself that the complexity of
 my app takes it beyond method 1, but I'm strugling to
 get my head around the implications of selecting
 method 2 or 3. Am I right in thinking that either of
 these will result in my building a Product? 

Yes.

 If I
 want to add extra feature to my product on the
 development server and then port them to the live
 server (with all the data on the live server being
 left in tact), will selection of either of these
 particularly help or hinder me in this?

I don't know, because when I tried 2., it turned out to be quite
complicated, and I never understood how to do it. So I did 3. And
afterwards I have realized that even if you do understand how to do 2,
the fact that you do most of your stuff in the restricted python
scripts and dtml or ZPT, means that you have tons of limitations to go
around.

In addition to that, you can't easily use any proper editors to edit
the code, which is very annoying.

Method 2 (aka ZClasses) simply seem to offer exactly zero benefits,
and loads of drawbacks.

Also, as mentioned earlier, unless you want to build your application
on top of one of the Zope2 content management systems around (CPS,
Plone, Silva, ...) you probably want too use Zope3 for your
application development anyway. And then only method 3 (disk based
development) is available.

-- 
Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/
CPS Content Management http://www.cps-project.org/
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Re: [Zope] Newbie Questions - many-many relationships? Zope 2 or 3?

2005-06-22 Thread Philip Kilner
Hi Jim,

Jim Vine wrote:
 I’d greatly appreciate any guidance that can be
 provided on these subjects.
 

I know a lot has been said since your original query, but re-reading it
I was surprised that no one had asked a fundamental question: -

If the data is structured in nature and fits the relational model well
(e.g. is well defined), why not use an RDBMS for the data, and
Zope/Plone for the UI?

I do full-time development of web-based RDBMS applications in Zope and
Plone (MS SQL and Firebird), and I have the following observations: -

- By putting database-related complexity in the database, where it
belongs IMHO, you may find (as I have) that the complexity of what you
need to accomplish in Zope is reduced to the point where the ZMI
approach is entirely appropriate.

- You will find yourself working very hard to implement a relational
database in the ZODB, compared to interfacing to an RDBMS. If you need
one, I'd use one - instead of writing one! ;-)

YMMV and all that - I /am/ an RDBMS zealot (see Fabian Pascal's writing
for the mindset!), and I am /not/ a Python wizard (although my Python-Fu
grows stronger by the day due to immersion in Zope...), so my choice of
approach was strongly influenced by my starting point.


-- 

Regards,

PhilK

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
PGP Public key: http://www.xfr.co.uk
Voicemail  Facsimile: 07092 070518

You'll find that one part's sweet and one part's tart:
say where the sweetness and the sourness start.
- Tony Harrison
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Re: [Zope] Newbie Questions - many-many relationships? Zope 2 or 3?

2005-06-22 Thread Andreas Pakulat
On 22.Jun 2005 - 12:04:02, Jim Vine wrote:
  On 21.Jun 2005 - 21:59:41, Jim Vine wrote:
   Say, for example that my Zope App in some way has
  a
   House object, which records the address, the
  owner,
   and a short description. Later on, I may wish to
  add
   further fields to record, say, the number of
  bedrooms,
   but the system is already in use - if I've
  developed
   in the ZMI, will this make it harder to make an
   upgrade?
  
  Such a change might not be a problem using ZMI, as
  you can freely add
  properties to any object. You'd have to supply the
  data for all existing
  objects though (but you'd need to do that when using
  a product too).
  
 
 OK, so there are (at least) three ways of doing things
 in Zope:
 
 1. Using the ZMI to build an application using
 standard objects (classes)
 2. Creating new classes to use in your app through the
 ZMI.
 3. Creating new classes to use in your app in Python.
 
 Most of the Zope Book concentrates on method 1, and
 the Extending Zope chapter is about method 2 - it
 mentions method 3, but says that it's beyond the scope
 of the book.

See the Zope Developers Guide for a first glance at method 3.

 get my head around the implications of selecting
 method 2 or 3. Am I right in thinking that either of
 these will result in my building a Product?

No, method 2 aka ZClasses don't involve producing a Product. But there
were issues in the past with ZClasses AFAIK. So it might be better to
stay away from them. On the other hand quite a bunch of people reading
here are using them for their apps...

 If I want to add extra feature to my product on the development server
 and then port them to the live server (with all the data on the live
 server being left in tact), will selection of either of these
 particularly help or hinder me in this?

Hmm, my knowlegde of ZClasses is somewhat limited (as I found writing a
pyhton product easier - but then I am a programmer...), so I can only
tell you what product based apps have there. Adding new class members is
easy and running instances catch those up. Adding new properties in such
a class works too. Changing the name of properties isn't that easy,
you'd have to write a conversion function or script that runs over all
the instances and takes the value of the old property and put's it into
the new name. Adding an instance variable will also not influence your
existing instances. 

Andreas

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Re: [Zope] Newbie Questions - many-many relationships? Zope 2 or 3?

2005-06-22 Thread Paul Winkler
On Wed, Jun 22, 2005 at 02:02:30PM +0200, Andreas Pakulat wrote:
 No, method 2 aka ZClasses don't involve producing a Product. 

Sure it does.  A ZClass-based Product is still a Product.

As for why I don't use ZClasses:

1) Doing everything in restricted mode is a big pain.
You end up writing a bunch of external methods anyway.

2) Source code version control is mandatory, and ZClasses make it nearly 
impossible.

-- 

Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
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Re: [Zope] Newbie Questions - many-many relationships? Zope 2 or 3?

2005-06-22 Thread Andreas Pakulat
On 22.Jun 2005 - 09:52:23, Paul Winkler wrote:
 On Wed, Jun 22, 2005 at 02:02:30PM +0200, Andreas Pakulat wrote:
  No, method 2 aka ZClasses don't involve producing a Product. 
 
 Sure it does.  A ZClass-based Product is still a Product.

Can't remember to have created a product, but then this was 2years
ago... 

Andreas

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Re: [Zope] Newbie Questions - many-many relationships? Zope 2 or 3?

2005-06-21 Thread Jim Vine
Thanks to those who posted suggestions - certainly
gave me a few things to think about. Unfortunately I
was left with one use Zope 2, one use Zope 3 and a
use Plone, but maybe that's just a reflection of the
fact that there's more than one Zope way to skin a
cat! (yeah, I know I've over-simplified the answers -
no offence is meant!)

On another thread
(http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope/2005-June/159738.html),
someone said:

The problem is that you develop using the ZMI. It's a
bad pattern. Don't do it.

but the Zope Book (2.7 version)'s chapter on Creating
a Basic Application all seems to be through the ZMI.

Now, Zope's original appeal to me was using the
graphical interface provided by the ZMI to create a
collection of objects which if you wire them up
correctly will become an application, a view that I
think is supported by the Zope Book. However, this
view, and what I've read about Zope 3 seems to
indicate that this way of doing things is deprecated.
Am I correct here? Particularly, if I am building an
app that I think I will want to add extra
functionality to after it has been installed and is in
use, is this a particular reason to avoid developing
with ZMI?

Say, for example that my Zope App in some way has a
House object, which records the address, the owner,
and a short description. Later on, I may wish to add
further fields to record, say, the number of bedrooms,
but the system is already in use - if I've developed
in the ZMI, will this make it harder to make an
upgrade?

Now, if the answer to all of that is yes, then I
think that steers me away from the need for TTW
development (TTW = Through The Web = ZMI, yes?) which
steers me towards Zope 3.

I'm interested by the suggestions on how to handle the
relations.

 Hmm, what I would start with is an attribute for a
 house containing a
 list of references to owners. And vice versa, each
 owner has a list of
 references to houses.

I had thought of this, but my concern was about how to
make sure that the two records are kept accurate -
basically the suggestion is to keep two records saying
the same thing, which just triggers alarm bells with
me.

Another suggestion was:

 Nah. You either let every PropertyOwner have a list
 of the ids of
 HouseProperty objects, or the other way around. Then
 you index this is
 the catalog so you can search. Tada!

I like the sound of this a bit better - just keep
records in one place. So, if I've followed, I let the
the house knows who owns it, and if I go to a
certain owner's page and want it to give me a list of
all the houses she owns, it would do a search through
all the house records to see where she's mentioned.

Thanks again for all the help so far - lots of food
for thought.

Thanks,
Jim

--- Andreas Pakulat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On 16.Jun 2005 - 23:17:43, Jim Vine wrote:
  Specifically, I've been scratching my head for a
 while
  about how to handle a many-many relationship: a
  property owner may own more than one house;
  conversely, a house may have more than one
 co-owner -
  consequently it's not appropriate to have either
  containing the other. I've googled for general
  information about handling many-many relationships
 in
  OO, and most of what I've come across has only
  indicated that it can be tricky!
 
 Hmm, what I would start with is an attribute for a
 house containing a
 list of references to owners. And vice versa, each
 owner has a list of
 references to houses. Now in Zope references could
 be implemented via
 storing the URL of the house and references to Users
 could be stored via
 the username (the one the user uses to log in). 
 
  While I’m on, I’ve noticed that Zope 3 has been
  released. Is this now the recommended development
  environment, or am I better off sticking with Zope
 2
  for now, and porting my application once Zope 3 is
 a
  bit further down the line?
 
 Read the archive, short answer is:
 
 If you depend only on Zope, you don't want TTW and
 you want to write a
 file based product: Zope3 would be possible
 
 If you need some existing products or if you need
 TTW-Code, then you
 have to stick to Zope2
 
 Andreas
 
 -- 
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Re: [Zope] Newbie Questions - many-many relationships? Zope 2 or 3?

2005-06-21 Thread Andreas Pakulat
On 21.Jun 2005 - 21:59:41, Jim Vine wrote:
 Say, for example that my Zope App in some way has a
 House object, which records the address, the owner,
 and a short description. Later on, I may wish to add
 further fields to record, say, the number of bedrooms,
 but the system is already in use - if I've developed
 in the ZMI, will this make it harder to make an
 upgrade?

Such a change might not be a problem using ZMI, as you can freely add
properties to any object. You'd have to supply the data for all existing
objects though (but you'd need to do that when using a product too).

  Hmm, what I would start with is an attribute for a
  house containing a
  list of references to owners. And vice versa, each
  owner has a list of
  references to houses.
 
 I had thought of this, but my concern was about how to
 make sure that the two records are kept accurate -
 basically the suggestion is to keep two records saying
 the same thing, which just triggers alarm bells with
 me.

Yes, it should have triggered mine too, as I wouldn't do that in my own
apps

  Nah. You either let every PropertyOwner have a list
  of the ids of
  HouseProperty objects, or the other way around. Then
  you index this is
  the catalog so you can search. Tada!
 
 I like the sound of this a bit better

It is.

Andreas

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Re: [Zope] Newbie Questions - many-many relationships? Zope 2 or 3?

2005-06-16 Thread Lennart Regebro
On 6/17/05, Jim Vine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I'm very interested in the Object Oriented way of
 doing things; for example, I'm thinking about
 implementing houses as a folder-ish object, so it
 would be able to contain photos of the house in
 question. The biggest stumbling block I am facing is
 how to do something Relational in an OO environment.
 Specifically, I've been scratching my head for a while
 about how to handle a many-many relationship: a
 property owner may own more than one house;
 conversely, a house may have more than one co-owner -
 consequently it's not appropriate to have either
 containing the other. I've googled for general
 information about handling many-many relationships in
 OO, and most of what I've come across has only
 indicated that it can be tricky!

Nah. You either let every PropertyOwner have a list of the ids of
HouseProperty objects, or the other way around. Then you index this is
the catalog so you can search. Tada!

 Having a look through past threads on this mailing
 list I've noticed a few references to mxmRelations
 (http://www.zope.org/Members/maxm/products/mxmRelations)
 which seems to match up - have I got the right end of
 the stick? 

Relation products often are aimed at making arbitrary relations
between different objects. it's cool, and useful. It may be overkill
in this case, unless you want to for example have different types of
owners. Then it fits perfectly.

http://zemantic.org/ Is the relations tool that seems to emerge as the
preferred one in the zope3 environment.

 While I'm on, I've noticed that Zope 3 has been
 released. Is this now the recommended development
 environment, or am I better off sticking with Zope 2
 for now, and porting my application once Zope 3 is a
 bit further down the line?

For applications development, zope3 is definitely recommended. Zope2
is only recommended if you you want to use a CMS application, like
Plone, CPS, or something else. There isn't one for zope3 yet.

-- 
Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/
CPS Content Management http://www.cps-project.org/
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Re: [Zope] Newbie Questions - many-many relationships? Zope 2 or 3?

2005-06-16 Thread Andreas Pakulat
On 16.Jun 2005 - 23:17:43, Jim Vine wrote:
 Specifically, I've been scratching my head for a while
 about how to handle a many-many relationship: a
 property owner may own more than one house;
 conversely, a house may have more than one co-owner -
 consequently it's not appropriate to have either
 containing the other. I've googled for general
 information about handling many-many relationships in
 OO, and most of what I've come across has only
 indicated that it can be tricky!

Hmm, what I would start with is an attribute for a house containing a
list of references to owners. And vice versa, each owner has a list of
references to houses. Now in Zope references could be implemented via
storing the URL of the house and references to Users could be stored via
the username (the one the user uses to log in). 

 While I?m on, I?ve noticed that Zope 3 has been
 released. Is this now the recommended development
 environment, or am I better off sticking with Zope 2
 for now, and porting my application once Zope 3 is a
 bit further down the line?

Read the archive, short answer is:

If you depend only on Zope, you don't want TTW and you want to write a
file based product: Zope3 would be possible

If you need some existing products or if you need TTW-Code, then you
have to stick to Zope2

Andreas

-- 
You're ugly and your mother dresses you funny.
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Re: [Zope] Newbie questions:

2005-04-11 Thread Jeffrey E. Forcier
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Enrique Arizón wrote:

 Hi again, I'm starting to make up with Zope, but still basic doubts
 remains:

 Q1: When using normal python I'got used to the dir(Object) to learn
 new APIs/Libraries. But when trainning with my first Zope Scripts I
 can't. The dir not defined error appears. ???

Being a relative newbie myself, I'm not positive this is correct, but
I can tell you that Python Scripts are limited in Zope--you can't
access the entire set of normal Python libraries and functions. A
large part, yes, but not all of them. I'd be surprised if 'dir' was
not in the allowed functions, but that would be one reason why it's
claiming it's not defined.

- --
Jeffrey E. Forcier
Junior Developer, Research and Development
Stroz Friedberg, LLC
15 Maiden Lane, 12th Floor
New York, NY 10038
[main]212-981-6540 [direct]212-981-6546
http://www.strozllc.com

This message is for the named person's use only.  It may contain
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to confidential or privileged treatment of this message is waived or
lost by any error in transmission.  If you have received this message
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Re: [Zope] Newbie questions:

2005-04-11 Thread Paul Winkler
On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 06:43:46PM -0400, Jeffrey E. Forcier wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 
 Enrique Ariz?n wrote:
 
  Hi again, I'm starting to make up with Zope, but still basic doubts
  remains:
 
  Q1: When using normal python I'got used to the dir(Object) to learn
  new APIs/Libraries. But when trainning with my first Zope Scripts I
  can't. The dir not defined error appears. ???
 
 Being a relative newbie myself, I'm not positive this is correct, but
 I can tell you that Python Scripts are limited in Zope--you can't
 access the entire set of normal Python libraries and functions. A
 large part, yes, but not all of them. I'd be surprised if 'dir' was
 not in the allowed functions, but that would be one reason why it's
 claiming it's not defined.

Mostly correct, except I'd say a small part rather than large part.

See
http://www.plope.com/Books/2_7Edition/ScriptingZope.stx
(which will make more sense if you read
http://www.plope.com/Books/2_7Edition/BasicScripting.stx first)

-- 

Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
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Re: [Zope] Newbie Questions

2001-01-08 Thread Alex Reid

Solved my first query using dtml-with ... hmm!
Any less verbose ways?

- Original Message -
From: Alex Reid [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 2:32 PM
Subject: [Zope] Newbie Questions


 I am finally starting to make some decent progress with Zope now... more
and
 more I think to myself ... "I wonder if" and most of the time I am
 pleasantly suprised when it works!

 A couple of quick questions:

 - How would I display the value at a variable whose name is stored in
 another variable?
 In Perl this would simply be a double dollar type of affair
 $name = "Alex";
 $myvar = "name";
 print $$myvar;

 - I am creating a 'form' method so I don't have to create separate forms
for
 INSERT and UPDATE actions. This works, only how do I tell Zope to ignore
the
 fact that dtml-var company_id doesn't exist when in INSERT mode? It is
 there in the value="" parameter for the edit mode to pre-populate the
 element.

 Thanks in advance

 Alex


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Re: [Zope] Newbie Questions

2001-01-08 Thread Dennis Nichols

At 1/8/01 02:32 PM, Alex Reid wrote:
- I am creating a 'form' method so I don't have to create separate forms for
INSERT and UPDATE actions. This works, only how do I tell Zope to ignore the
fact that dtml-var company_id doesn't exist when in INSERT mode? It is
there in the value="" parameter for the edit mode to pre-populate the
element.

dtml-var company_id missing



--
Dennis Nichols
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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RE: [Zope] Newbie Questions

2001-01-08 Thread Cornelis J. de Brabander

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Alex
 Reid
 Sent: maandag 8 januari 2001 15:33
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: [Zope] Newbie Questions

 - How would I display the value at a variable whose name is stored in
 another variable?
 In Perl this would simply be a double dollar type of affair
 $name = "Alex";
 $myvar = "name";
 print $$myvar;


dtml-var "_[myvar]"

cb



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Re: [Zope] newbie questions ?

2000-10-23 Thread Chris McDonough

 Hi,

  I spent my week-end learning how to use Zope, it was a nice painful
 experience. Nice thanks to Zope itself, painful because of the poor
 docs. The How-Tos helped me a lot but it is a real mess.

We know.  :-) Have you checked out the Zope book?
http://www.zope.org/Members/michel/ZB/.

  Here are two questions I did not find the answers :

   - how to ask for authentification to see my web pages (not manage, just
 see) ? In Apache one has to put a .htaccess file in the directory.

This answer is definitely in the Zope book.  If it's not, there's the
(unfinished) chapter of the Zope Product Developer's Guide Security chapter
at http://www.zope.org/Members/mcdonc/PDG/6-1-Security.stx.

   - how to limit the size a folder ? I want to give login to friends
 so they can add photos in a folder but I don't want to receive
 more than 200MB of data in this folder.

There is no quota support in Zope.  You'd need to write code to enforce a
constraint on total upload size.



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Re: [Zope] newbie questions ?

2000-10-23 Thread Bill Anderson

Chris McDonough wrote:
 
 And by the way, it's "authentication".  Every time I see "authentification",
 it makes my skin crawl. :-)


Amen. That and "...to adminstrate a server". :^)=

Bill

--
E PLURIBUS LINUX


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Re: [Zope] newbie questions ?

2000-10-23 Thread Olivier Ricou

On Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 06:43:06AM -0400, Chris McDonough wrote:
 And by the way, it's "authentication".  Every time I see "authentification",

guess how we say in french :)

Here is the solution I found to do the .htaccess feature (I haven't found
where it is written) : I put in my standard_html_header

dtml-if expr="AUTHENTICATED_USER.getUserName()=='Anonymous User'"
dtml-raise Unauthorized
Il faut un compte pour voir ces pages.
/dtml-raise
/dtml-if

and I add a new type of user with no rights in the acl_user folder.
Hence each person with want to see the site should have an account,
at least a no right account.

Olivier.

ps: the french sentence is useless since it never appears.

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Re: [Zope] newbie questions ?

2000-10-23 Thread Andy McKay

You could also do (and I would recommend it) by using the security system
Zope give you. For example if you go to your root zope folder, click on
security and deselect View for Anonymous User, this will have the same
effect.

- Original Message -
From: "Olivier Ricou" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Zope] newbie questions ?


 On Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 06:43:06AM -0400, Chris McDonough wrote:
  And by the way, it's "authentication".  Every time I see
"authentification",

 guess how we say in french :)

 Here is the solution I found to do the .htaccess feature (I haven't found
 where it is written) : I put in my standard_html_header

 dtml-if expr="AUTHENTICATED_USER.getUserName()=='Anonymous User'"
 dtml-raise Unauthorized
 Il faut un compte pour voir ces pages.
 /dtml-raise
 /dtml-if

 and I add a new type of user with no rights in the acl_user folder.
 Hence each person with want to see the site should have an account,
 at least a no right account.

 Olivier.

 ps: the french sentence is useless since it never appears.

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Re: [Zope] newbie questions ?

2000-10-23 Thread Bill Anderson

Olivier Ricou wrote:
 
 On Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 06:43:06AM -0400, Chris McDonough wrote:
  And by the way, it's "authentication".  Every time I see "authentification",
 
 guess how we say in french :)

I guess since I took 3 years of it, I am barred from guessing? ;^)



--
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Re: [Zope] newbie questions ?

2000-10-23 Thread knight

Heh. authentification hah. 

http://www.phunc.com/Humor/Signs/ChineseRestraunt

Check that out... same kind of humor. Grin.

Knight

On Mon, 23 Oct 2000, Bill Anderson wrote:

 Olivier Ricou wrote:
  
  On Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 06:43:06AM -0400, Chris McDonough wrote:
   And by the way, it's "authentication".  Every time I see "authentification",
  
  guess how we say in french :)
 
 I guess since I took 3 years of it, I am barred from guessing? ;^)
 
 
 
 --
 E PLURIBUS LINUX
 
 
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Re: [Zope] newbie questions ?

2000-10-23 Thread Chris McDonough

That's pretty funny, but what's actually funnier is you mispelling
"restaurant" in your URL.  :-)

- Original Message -
From: "knight" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "Bill Anderson" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 10:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Zope] newbie questions ?


 Heh. authentification hah.

 http://www.phunc.com/Humor/Signs/ChineseRestraunt

 Check that out... same kind of humor. Grin.

 Knight

 On Mon, 23 Oct 2000, Bill Anderson wrote:

  Olivier Ricou wrote:
  
   On Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 06:43:06AM -0400, Chris McDonough wrote:
And by the way, it's "authentication".  Every time I see
"authentification",
  
   guess how we say in french :)
 
  I guess since I took 3 years of it, I am barred from guessing? ;^)
 
 
 
  --
  E PLURIBUS LINUX
 
 
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Re: [Zope] newbie questions ?

2000-10-23 Thread knight

Uh oh, you got me ;] Probably related to the cold medicine. grin.

On Mon, 23 Oct 2000, Chris McDonough wrote:

 That's pretty funny, but what's actually funnier is you mispelling
 "restaurant" in your URL.  :-)
 
 - Original Message -
 From: "knight" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: "Bill Anderson" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 10:18 PM
 Subject: Re: [Zope] newbie questions ?
 
 
  Heh. authentification hah.
 
  http://www.phunc.com/Humor/Signs/ChineseRestraunt
 
  Check that out... same kind of humor. Grin.
 
  Knight
 
  On Mon, 23 Oct 2000, Bill Anderson wrote:
 
   Olivier Ricou wrote:
   
On Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 06:43:06AM -0400, Chris McDonough wrote:
 And by the way, it's "authentication".  Every time I see
 "authentification",
   
guess how we say in french :)
  
   I guess since I took 3 years of it, I am barred from guessing? ;^)
  
  
  
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Re: [Zope] newbie questions ?

2000-10-23 Thread knight

http://www.phunc.com/Humor/Signs/ChineseRestaurant

There. ;]

On Mon, 23 Oct 2000, Chris McDonough wrote:

 That's pretty funny, but what's actually funnier is you mispelling
 "restaurant" in your URL.  :-)
 
 - Original Message -
 From: "knight" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: "Bill Anderson" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 10:18 PM
 Subject: Re: [Zope] newbie questions ?
 
 
  Heh. authentification hah.
 
  http://www.phunc.com/Humor/Signs/ChineseRestraunt
 
  Check that out... same kind of humor. Grin.
 
  Knight
 
  On Mon, 23 Oct 2000, Bill Anderson wrote:
 
   Olivier Ricou wrote:
   
On Mon, Oct 23, 2000 at 06:43:06AM -0400, Chris McDonough wrote:
 And by the way, it's "authentication".  Every time I see
 "authentification",
   
guess how we say in french :)
  
   I guess since I took 3 years of it, I am barred from guessing? ;^)
  
  
  
   --
   E PLURIBUS LINUX
  
  
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Re: [Zope] Newbie questions: Job_board Howto, ZCatalog, Squishdot

2000-07-10 Thread Chris Withers

Meeting Maker Webmaster wrote:
 One last question ;-) I've seen in this mailing list that Squishdot will
 not work with Zope 2.2.0 until version 0.4.4... when is this version
 planed? I've tried to install Squisdot on the Zope 2.2.0b3 server and I get
 the same problem as with my "Job_Board" test... will one solution solve the
 other?

0.4.4 will land in a couple of weeks hopefully.

One solution may well solve both problems, if you find it, please tell
me ;-)

cheers,

Chris

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Re: [Zope] newbie questions

2000-07-06 Thread Chris McDonough

Hi Frank,

It sounds like your SourceSafe tie in could potentially be a fairly
complex undertaking.  Amos Latteier wrote an example COMObject product
that will show you the mechanics of utilizing COM objects from Zope. 
This might help.  And though I know you don't want to VC Zope objects,
you might be interested in Steve Spicklemire's CVSMixin product that
seems to utilize CVS for version control of several kinds of Zope
objects.  You may get tips from both of these products.  Seach Zope.org
for both.

To back up the ZODB, just copy the Data.fs file in the var directory. 
You may safely do this while Zope is running.  To restore, reinstall
Zope and all the products you're using and copy the Data.fs into the var
directory.

HTH,

Chris


Frank McGeough wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 I've setup zope and zwiki to use for internal collaboration. I'm
 having fun and doing some useful stuff without knowing too much or
 appearing too stupid. I've decided to do something more adventuresome
 to learn some more. I'd like to tie in our SourceSafe version control
 system so I could do reports that list what has been checked in since
 a date or label. So I have to get input from the user from this and
 then use SourceSafe com interfaces to gather the data and put it in a
 nice format. Is this a good project for zope? It would be very useful
 for checking progress on projects when I'm off-site because using the
 SourceSafe UI over a modem has horrid performance problems. Along
 those lines would it be possible to use the Zope tree control to mimic
 the SourceSafe project tree stuff so the whole thing could be
 accessible using a modem?
 
 Also, is there a backup facility for the zodb? I have built a few
 pages using zwiki and I'd like to ensure that they would survive a
 hard disk crash or other nastiness. Thanks.
 
 Frank
 
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Re: [Zope] newbie questions

2000-07-06 Thread David Trudgett

At 2000-07-06 22:23 -0400, Chris McDonough [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


To back up the ZODB, just copy the Data.fs file in the var directory.
You may safely do this while Zope is running.  To restore, reinstall
Zope and all the products you're using and copy the Data.fs into the var
directory.

I don't understand this advice. Couldn't the file change while being read? 
Wouldn't a better way be to pack the database and use the Data.fs.old file 
as the backup?

David Trudgett


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Re: [Zope] newbie questions

2000-07-06 Thread Chris McDonough

AFAIK, it would be a bad idea a) if writes were not appends and b) if
records written to the FileStorage were not written atomically.  But
neither is the case, so it's safe to just copy it without shutting it
down.  The only time this may not be the case is if it were copied
during a pack operation.

David Trudgett wrote:

 I don't understand this advice. Couldn't the file change while being read?
 Wouldn't a better way be to pack the database and use the Data.fs.old file
 as the backup?
 
 David Trudgett

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Re: [Zope] newbie questions

2000-07-06 Thread R. David Murray

On Fri, 7 Jul 2000, David Trudgett wrote:
 I don't understand this advice. Couldn't the file change while being read? 
 Wouldn't a better way be to pack the database and use the Data.fs.old file 
 as the backup?

If you are a belt-and-suspenders type, sure grin.

Data.fs only gets appended to, and Zope is smart enough to
ignore incomplete transactions on the end of the file when
it starts up.  So the database is *always* in a consistent
state on disk from Zope's point of view, making it safe to
back it up by just copying the live Data.fs.

--RDM


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