Re: [Zope] Zope 2.9 Product Refreshing

2006-08-21 Thread Peter Bengtsson
Dieter Maurer wrote: Peter Bengtsson wrote at 2006-8-18 18:53 +0100: ... One last odd clue, when I refresh my product (eg. MyProduct) in zope 2.9.4, actual something happens. My product is very very simple and it's one main class has a method called index_html() that looks like this: from

Re: [Zope] Zope 2.9 Product Refreshing

2006-08-21 Thread Dieter Maurer
Peter Bengtsson wrote at 2006-8-21 10:13 +0100: ... global variables turn to 'None' after refresh ... If you have accessed the index_html via a persistent instance, then the resetCaches seems not to have done what we expect (it should have caused the connection cache to be dropped and a new

Re: [Zope] Zope 2.9 Product Refreshing

2006-08-18 Thread Peter Bengtsson
What happens when you try to refresh a product? Nothing. No errors, no refresh. Then you should look in the SVN repository how the refresh code changed. In Zope 2.8, refresh moves all modules starting with Products.product_to_be_refreshed out of sys.modules (and into a safe place)

Re: [Zope] Zope 2.9 Product Refreshing

2006-08-18 Thread Dieter Maurer
Peter Bengtsson wrote at 2006-8-18 18:53 +0100: ... One last odd clue, when I refresh my product (eg. MyProduct) in zope 2.9.4, actual something happens. My product is very very simple and it's one main class has a method called index_html() that looks like this: from DateTime import DateTime

Re: [Zope] Zope 2.9 Product Refreshing

2006-08-16 Thread Peter Bengtsson
Dieter Maurer wrote: James Davies wrote at 2006-8-7 21:47 +1000: I've been attempting to develop products with Zope 2.9, and am finding it increasingly difficult and slow to do so as Product refreshing no longer works. What happens when you try to refresh a product? Nothing. No errors, no

Re: [Zope] Zope 2.9 Product Refreshing

2006-08-16 Thread Jonathan
- Original Message - From: Peter Bengtsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Dieter Maurer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: zope@zope.org Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 5:47 AM Subject: Re: [Zope] Zope 2.9 Product Refreshing Dieter Maurer wrote: James Davies wrote at 2006-8-7 21:47 +1000: I've been

Re: [Zope] Zope 2.9 Product Refreshing

2006-08-16 Thread Dieter Maurer
Peter Bengtsson wrote at 2006-8-16 10:47 +0100: Dieter Maurer wrote: James Davies wrote at 2006-8-7 21:47 +1000: I've been attempting to develop products with Zope 2.9, and am finding it increasingly difficult and slow to do so as Product refreshing no longer works. What happens when you

Re: [Zope] Zope 2.9 Product Refreshing

2006-08-08 Thread Lennart Regebro
On 8/7/06, Dieter Maurer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For this to work, we almost sure need to tell Five that the product was refreshed such that Five can reprocess the *.zcml files for the product. Yeah, and we don't, and ZCML isn't designed for reprocessing, so I'm not at all sure it's easy (but

Re: [Zope] Zope 2.9 Product Refreshing

2006-08-08 Thread Lennart Regebro
On 8/8/06, James Davies [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: People pay large sums of money for us to host there critical business infrastructure. If we have to restart zope for any reason, people get apache proxy errors and lose session data. Well, right the session data would be annoying. But still,

Re: [Zope] Zope 2.9 Product Refreshing

2006-08-08 Thread Chris McDonough
FWIW, the session data problem can be solved with the use of a ZODB session data container that is not stored in RAM (e.g. an SDC that is not /temp_folder/session_data), or a reimplentation of a session manager that uses a relational database or the filesystem. The proxy error issue should be

Re: [Zope] Zope 2.9 Product Refreshing

2006-08-08 Thread James Davies
On 8/7/06, Andreas Jung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You might blame Plone for shipping for three tons of frameworks?Incidently, I've just added some print statements to trace the Zope startup, and Five is by far the slowest product to load, taking about 3 seconds. Running up is

Re: [Zope] Zope 2.9 Product Refreshing

2006-08-07 Thread Andreas Jung
--On 7. August 2006 21:47:37 +1000 James Davies [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi. I've been attempting to develop products with Zope 2.9, and am finding it increasingly difficult and slow to do so as Product refreshing no longer works. Google shows up a few results from mailing lists with

Re: [Zope] Zope 2.9 Product Refreshing

2006-08-07 Thread Reinoud van Leeuwen
On Mon, Aug 07, 2006 at 09:47:37PM +1000, James Davies wrote: Another major issue I've discovered is Zope hosting. We reguarly deploy custom sites on shared zope environments, and having to restart an entire server just to update one product severely breaks our uptime guarentee. If you use a

Re: [Zope] Zope 2.9 Product Refreshing

2006-08-07 Thread James Davies
On 8/7/06, Andreas Jung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Refreshing was always a hack and never something I would call a feature.It was always a hack for *development* purposes but not for production. Yes, but it's still very handy and many people have come to rely on it. You might blame Plone for

Re: [Zope] Zope 2.9 Product Refreshing

2006-08-07 Thread James Davies
We have Zeo, but running a seperate instance of zope for each site is still too much (We probably host around 50 sites at the moment, and growing. The only economical way to do this is to put multiple sites in one zope instance).On 8/7/06, Reinoud van Leeuwen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Aug

Re: [Zope] Zope 2.9 Product Refreshing

2006-08-07 Thread Reinoud van Leeuwen
On Mon, Aug 07, 2006 at 10:12:42PM +1000, James Davies wrote: We have Zeo, but running a seperate instance of zope for each site is still too much (We probably host around 50 sites at the moment, and growing. The only economical way to do this is to put multiple sites in one zope instance).

Re: [Zope] Zope 2.9 Product Refreshing

2006-08-07 Thread Andreas Jung
--On 7. August 2006 22:08:04 +1000 James Davies [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 8/7/06, Andreas Jung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Refreshing was always a hack and never something I would call a feature. It was always a hack for *development* purposes but not for production. Yes, but it's

Re: [Zope] Zope 2.9 Product Refreshing

2006-08-07 Thread Lennart Regebro
On 8/7/06, James Davies [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi. I've been attempting to develop products with Zope 2.9, and am finding it increasingly difficult and slow to do so as Product refreshing no longer works. Google shows up a few results from mailing lists with somewhat negative responses (The

Re: [Zope] Zope 2.9 Product Refreshing

2006-08-07 Thread Dieter Maurer
Andreas Jung wrote at 2006-8-7 13:56 +0200: ... Refreshing was always a hack and never something I would call a feature. It was always a hack for *development* purposes but not for production. We are speaking about development, not about production. ... Refresh does not work Five... Do you

Re: [Zope] Zope 2.9 Product Refreshing

2006-08-07 Thread Andreas Jung
--On 7. August 2006 20:30:11 +0200 Dieter Maurer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andreas Jung wrote at 2006-8-7 13:56 +0200: ... Refreshing was always a hack and never something I would call a feature. It was always a hack for *development* purposes but not for production. We are speaking about

Re: [Zope] Zope 2.9 Product Refreshing

2006-08-07 Thread Dieter Maurer
James Davies wrote at 2006-8-7 21:47 +1000: I've been attempting to develop products with Zope 2.9, and am finding it increasingly difficult and slow to do so as Product refreshing no longer works. What happens when you try to refresh a product? Does it happen only when the product uses Five? Or

Re: [Zope] Zope 2.9 Product Refreshing

2006-08-07 Thread Dieter Maurer
Reinoud van Leeuwen wrote at 2006-8-7 14:15 +0200: On Mon, Aug 07, 2006 at 10:12:42PM +1000, James Davies wrote: We have Zeo, but running a seperate instance of zope for each site is still too much (We probably host around 50 sites at the moment, and growing. The only economical way to do this

Re: [Zope] Zope 2.9 Product Refreshing

2006-08-07 Thread Dieter Maurer
Andreas Jung wrote at 2006-8-7 20:43 +0200: ... Nevertheless, it may come sooner as some external developpers are a fan of Five and want to install a newer version. As we all expect Five to be the reason that refresh no longer works, this might force me to look into this problem earlier than

Re: [Zope] Zope 2.9 Product Refreshing

2006-08-07 Thread John Schinnerer
Aloha, Refresh always works, at least the explicit refresh (do not know about the automatic one which I have never used). I'm on 2.7 and yes, the explicit and *very* useful refresh tab in the ZMI seems to work fine in production mode also. I do not remember fondly the old days (2.4, 2.5)

Re: [Zope] Zope 2.9 Product Refreshing

2006-08-07 Thread Chris McDonough
The real effort towards making a better refresh should likely be spent at the level of the Python interpreter. The dynamic nature of Python is the thing that allows for a refresh in the first place, but the implementation of Python object references limits its usefulness. The

Re: [Zope] Zope 2.9 Product Refreshing

2006-08-07 Thread John Schinnerer
Since I never knew the refresh tab was a fragile hack, it always worked fine for me... :-) Are you saying that a really good solution for this is in the hands of python developers, not zope developers? In that case it seems far off, if ever, since zope is only one of many many applications

Re: [Zope] Zope 2.9 Product Refreshing

2006-08-07 Thread Chris McDonough
On Aug 7, 2006, at 5:57 PM, John Schinnerer wrote: Since I never knew the refresh tab was a fragile hack, it always worked fine for me... :-) Bliss! I'm happy for you! FWIW, you've just had it nail you now, whereas I'd had it nail me four years ago, and swore it off then. ;-) Are you

Re: [Zope] Zope 2.9 Product Refreshing

2006-08-07 Thread James Davies
This isn't really a solution. Clients will still lose session data, which is unacceptable. -James. On Monday 07 August 2006 22:15, Reinoud van Leeuwen wrote: On Mon, Aug 07, 2006 at 10:12:42PM +1000, James Davies wrote: We have Zeo, but running a seperate instance of zope for each site is

Re: [Zope] Zope 2.9 Product Refreshing

2006-08-07 Thread James Davies
On Tuesday 08 August 2006 01:34, you wrote: You mean you can't allow the server even to be down for the less than a minute it takes to restart it? I would honestly be very interested in knowing what kind of systems you run that has that sort of requirements. Are you serious? People pay large