Re: [Zope] Zope Digest, Vol 91, Issue 2
Aloha, On 12/05/2011 05:30 PM, Sareesh Sudhakaran wrote: I have downloaded Python and PHP and have used both with Komodo Edit IDE, side by side, and have realized I would ideally want to program in Python. But I'm okay with PHP also - which means my choice of programming language depends on my choice of DB. Also, PHP has OOP 'capabilities' whatever that means - so maybe I can still use it like Python to a certain extent. Google is php object oriented and you'll get plenty of somewhat relevant hits. In terms of true OO languages (like python, ruby, java...), this may be a most relevant link: http://michaelkimsal.com/blog/php-is-not-object-oriented/ And, what he is pointing out may not be a problem for you, if mostly procedural with some object capabilities is suitable for your needs. If you are using python to build a zope product, the ZODB is used automagically, you don't have to do anything special. To access MySQL DBs you have to add an appropriate zope product to handle queries. A search on zope with mysql ...or vice versa returns mostly IMO embarrassingly old hits, many from old.zope.org and five to ten years old. So either the old info is still valid, or there is a lack of current information on using zope with mysql (though it is said that it is easy - where are non-stale howtos/tutorials for those who don't already know how?). Can you point me to a resource for Python and mySQL? I've bought 'Dive into Python' but it has no reference on how to use it with mySQL. If my current hosting provider supports Python and mySQL, can I make it work? They won't let me install anything on the server side though, so I can't use any modules that aren't there already. Look for info/howtos on Python's DB-API and the MySQLdb module. For example: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/MySQL-python/ http://sourceforge.net/projects/mysql-python/ http://zetcode.com/databases/mysqlpythontutorial/ http://www.devshed.com/c/a/Python/MySQL-Connectivity-With-Python/ ...though sounds like you can't add such modules on your current provider's server if not there already. Myself for a project of this complexity I would want much more control of my server options than it sounds like you have. A low-cost VPS (I use linode.com), or simply use localhost until I have my options sorted out. regards, John S. -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration j...@eco-living.net http://eco-living.net ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope Digest, Vol 91, Issue 2
On 12/05/2011 03:12 PM, Sareesh Sudhakaran wrote: Hi John and Fernando Intuitively I feel that my project fits in with an Object DB, which is why I have spent a lot of time trying to understand its methodology. But now I'm more confused than ever. Sareesh, could you be more specific about what confuses you? You have several routes, you need to give proper consideration to those routes. Maybe it would also help us if you clarify what is your skillset and experience in software development. Also, is your problem a CIM one? see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer-integrated_manufacturing and specifically the key challenge listed over there. I have the impression you might be underestimating the problem. Finally, do you already have information about the tools in some electronic format? And what about the rules to choose tools? Is there already some computer based solution to help with the current problem? Please keep in mind that OOP and Object DB is not the same thing. You can work with objects in Python and never rely on OODB. I have serious doubts about using ZODB at your stage because AFAIK, creating custom objects requires the development of zope Products. Note that the zope book does not teach you about creating custom objects in the ZODB. You need another whole book for that. And the combination RDB and ZODB suggested by Neils/John seems too complicated as a start. I think you have a high learning curve ahead of you if have to learn to create Zope Packages to put objects in ZODB. But maybe there are simpler ways that I am not aware of. I'm sure OOP in Python and RDB is a good option. ZODB itself, I'm not so sure. Maybe others can enlighten you better here. It appears to me you don't have much experience and it looks like there is a long evolutionary project ahead of you. For these reasons, I would highly recommend Python. BTW, I never recommended and I do not recommend C/C++ for your needs, I just mentioned that I used it for a similar purpose many years ago. I would recommend you to do some programming in Python just to read some tool data from a text file, create some objects and try to do some tool selection where the output is merely done with print. Then you can upgrade to use MySQL to store your tool data and then you can decide if you go the Zope or the PHP route. Keep in mind that RDBs are a huge standard with many people and tools around it, whereas ZODB is very much a small niche in comparison. That should also weigh in your criteria. Regards, Fernando ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope Digest, Vol 91, Issue 2
is to truly succeed, it must reach the capability to marry disjointed tools into seamless workflows. If I want to cook a recipe, the app should be able to tell me which ingredients to use, which manufacturers to buy from, the quantity and proportion, how to slice and dice, which way to cook it...etc. The app is an expert system. The end user is a layman who needs to find the best workflow without having to think about it. I feel like the layman who needs my own expert system! So: Do I need ZODB or am I going to be okay with mySQL? My confusion is restricted to Object DB vs RDB vs RDB+ORM. Among all the aspects of the project, this is the most boring and laborious to me, and I want to get it right the first time. I am confident I can make the logic work (the fun part), but I don't know how to manage the data (the boring part). Actually I like your suggestion, and I will code my project in PHP (or Python if I can find a way to use it with mySQL) using text files. I will use mySQL to start adding the data for the prototype. Hopefully things will work out! sareesh Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 00:14:25 +0100 From: ferna...@cmartins.nl To: ays...@hotmail.com CC: zope@zope.org Subject: Re: [Zope] Zope Digest, Vol 91, Issue 2 On 12/05/2011 03:12 PM, Sareesh Sudhakaran wrote: Hi John and Fernando Intuitively I feel that my project fits in with an Object DB, which is why I have spent a lot of time trying to understand its methodology. But now I'm more confused than ever. Sareesh, could you be more specific about what confuses you? You have several routes, you need to give proper consideration to those routes. Maybe it would also help us if you clarify what is your skillset and experience in software development. Also, is your problem a CIM one? see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer-integrated_manufacturing and specifically the key challenge listed over there. I have the impression you might be underestimating the problem. Finally, do you already have information about the tools in some electronic format? And what about the rules to choose tools? Is there already some computer based solution to help with the current problem? Please keep in mind that OOP and Object DB is not the same thing. You can work with objects in Python and never rely on OODB. I have serious doubts about using ZODB at your stage because AFAIK, creating custom objects requires the development of zope Products. Note that the zope book does not teach you about creating custom objects in the ZODB. You need another whole book for that. And the combination RDB and ZODB suggested by Neils/John seems too complicated as a start. I think you have a high learning curve ahead of you if have to learn to create Zope Packages to put objects in ZODB. But maybe there are simpler ways that I am not aware of. I'm sure OOP in Python and RDB is a good option. ZODB itself, I'm not so sure. Maybe others can enlighten you better here. It appears to me you don't have much experience and it looks like there is a long evolutionary project ahead of you. For these reasons, I would highly recommend Python. BTW, I never recommended and I do not recommend C/C++ for your needs, I just mentioned that I used it for a similar purpose many years ago. I would recommend you to do some programming in Python just to read some tool data from a text file, create some objects and try to do some tool selection where the output is merely done with print. Then you can upgrade to use MySQL to store your tool data and then you can decide if you go the Zope or the PHP route. Keep in mind that RDBs are a huge standard with many people and tools around it, whereas ZODB is very much a small niche in comparison. That should also weigh in your criteria. Regards, Fernando ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )