Re: [Zope] anyone heard of Zamasing?

2008-04-18 Thread Philip Kilner

Hi Tim,

Tim Nash wrote:

 @Phil,
   I think you will find the product learning curve isn't that steep
at all. The famous z-shaped curve has more to do with the lack of
up-to-date documentation than anything else. Products are the way to
go. It is very much like wriitng 'Scripts Python'. I am going to put a
simple 'boring' product on the zope.org site (if they let me) which
will show how to use zope and extjs for anyone who is interested.
Looking forward to your proof of concept



Know it is the way to go - seems hard because I'm an RDBMS developer not 
a Python coder, has been a long time coming as the stuff I do in the ZMI 
really is mostly glue - not so complex that the classic management 
issues of ZMI have bitten me particularly hard.


Motivation for going Products route is need to share (and thus improve!) 
ideas, and need to package code up for use by others as we grow our 
business. Starting point is currently the Beta Boring product by 
Betabug (Thanks Sascha!)


Am taking a week's break from my consulting gig next week, so will be on 
with writing this up after today.



--

Regards,

PhilK


'work as if you lived in the early days of a better nation'
- alasdair gray
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Re: [Zope] anyone heard of Zamasing?

2008-04-17 Thread Philip Kilner

Hi Tim,

Tim Nash wrote:

  It is great to see more posts about how well zope works for Web
2.0 projects. I have used extjs with zope and really like the
combination. I'd like to learn more about your jquery /plone setup and
how you make it work. Would it be a time consuming for you to create a
generic product that demonstrates your setup? It would be helpful to
have a common set of artifacts to discuss.



Am happy to share - it's all very simple stuff, the elements just work 
very elegantly together. I'm stringing other people's pearls here - the 
tools are great, putting them together is trivial.


However, having got the elements together, I'm now moving from a TTW 
approach (yes, I know - I'm a dinosaur!) to a Product approach, which is 
going to be a pretty steep learning curve for me. I need to document my 
starting point (which is effectively a common folder of scripts and 
templates, which the working pages access by acquisition), so I'll post 
a link to the list asking for feedback when I'm at that point.


N.B. This is going to take me at least a couple of weeks - I've got some 
paying work to finish off before I can move on to that.


I've got a proof of concept set of templates without Formulator or any 
RDBMS interaction that I did somewhere. It's only about three templates 
and a scrip. I'll post them when I find them, so that you can see how 
Taconite works with ZPTs, which is the most joyful part of it for me.



--

Regards,

PhilK


'work as if you lived in the early days of a better nation'
- alasdair gray
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Re: [Zope] anyone heard of Zamasing?

2008-04-17 Thread Tim Nash
@Garito,
  I hope you have another  release of ZSM. I really appreciate new
developer tools for zope like your ZSM and Zamasing. I am pretty
confident that the zope 3 crowd will eventually put back TTW,  simple
ZMI etc. (but hopefully not too much acquisitionthe great idea
that almost ruins zope 2).

Google is very close to making the business layer scalable, they have
been studying salesforce.com for some time now. When they conquer that
technical hurdle, huge ASP's will probably dominate computing
(especially in China). Easily distributed and maintained web services
like zope 2 may be one of the few remaining ways to compete with
monster ASP's. The zope 3 crowd will come back around with an even
better zope.

 @Phil,
   I think you will find the product learning curve isn't that steep
at all. The famous z-shaped curve has more to do with the lack of
up-to-date documentation than anything else. Products are the way to
go. It is very much like wriitng 'Scripts Python'. I am going to put a
simple 'boring' product on the zope.org site (if they let me) which
will show how to use zope and extjs for anyone who is interested.
Looking forward to your proof of concept

-Tim

On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 1:01 AM, Philip Kilner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi Tim,


  Tim Nash wrote:

   It is great to see more posts about how well zope works for Web
  2.0 projects. I have used extjs with zope and really like the
  combination. I'd like to learn more about your jquery /plone setup and
  how you make it work. Would it be a time consuming for you to create a
  generic product that demonstrates your setup? It would be helpful to
  have a common set of artifacts to discuss.
 
 

  Am happy to share - it's all very simple stuff, the elements just work very
 elegantly together. I'm stringing other people's pearls here - the tools are
 great, putting them together is trivial.

  However, having got the elements together, I'm now moving from a TTW
 approach (yes, I know - I'm a dinosaur!) to a Product approach, which is
 going to be a pretty steep learning curve for me. I need to document my
 starting point (which is effectively a common folder of scripts and
 templates, which the working pages access by acquisition), so I'll post a
 link to the list asking for feedback when I'm at that point.

  N.B. This is going to take me at least a couple of weeks - I've got some
 paying work to finish off before I can move on to that.

  I've got a proof of concept set of templates without Formulator or any
 RDBMS interaction that I did somewhere. It's only about three templates and
 a scrip. I'll post them when I find them, so that you can see how Taconite
 works with ZPTs, which is the most joyful part of it for me.


  --


  Regards,

  PhilK


  'work as if you lived in the early days of a better nation'
  - alasdair gray

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Re: [Zope] anyone heard of Zamasing?

2008-04-16 Thread Peter Bengtsson
Not until now. But I'm amased! Really looking forward to taking it for a spin.

On 16/04/2008, Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 ...I certainly never had until someone threw a press release my way...

  http://zamasing.com

  Any ideas/comments/etc?

  Chris

  --
  Simplistix - Content Management, Zope  Python Consulting
- http://www.simplistix.co.uk
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-- 
Peter Bengtsson,
work www.fry-it.com
home www.peterbe.com
hobby www.issuetrackerproduct.com
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Re: [Zope] anyone heard of Zamasing?

2008-04-16 Thread Tom Von Lahndorff
Thats pretty awesome. It's zamazing to me that Zope 2 is not a de facto
platform for Web 2.0 projects. I think it has some major benefits over
Rails and maybe even Django but there seems to be no interest in it from
that community. This is a great start.

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 6:40 AM, Peter Bengtsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Not until now. But I'm amased! Really looking forward to taking it for a
 spin.

 On 16/04/2008, Chris Withers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  ...I certainly never had until someone threw a press release my way...
 
   http://zamasing.com
 
   Any ideas/comments/etc?
 
   Chris
 
   --
   Simplistix - Content Management, Zope  Python Consulting
 - http://www.simplistix.co.uk
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 --
 Peter Bengtsson,
 work www.fry-it.com
 home www.peterbe.com
 hobby www.issuetrackerproduct.com
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Re: [Zope] anyone heard of Zamasing?

2008-04-16 Thread Allen Schmidt Sr.
A reason to upgrade our 2.7.5!!!  I have been on this list for over 7 
years and have never heard of this company. I wonder how many other cool 
Zope2 things are being done quietly in the shadows. Bring your cool 
stuff into the light for others to enjoy...and pay for if needed. I for 
one have no problem buying useful tools or products for Zope.


Thanks for the tip Chris.

Allen


Tom Von Lahndorff wrote:


Thats pretty awesome. It's zamazing to me that Zope 2 is not a de 
facto platform for Web 2.0 projects. I think it has some major 
benefits over Rails and maybe even Django but there seems to be no 
interest in it from that community. This is a great start.

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Re: [Zope] anyone heard of Zamasing?

2008-04-16 Thread Philip Kilner

Hi Tom,

Tom Von Lahndorff wrote:
Thats pretty awesome. It's zamazing to me that Zope 2 is not a de 
facto platform for Web 2.0 projects. I think it has some major 
benefits over Rails and maybe even Django but there seems to be no 
interest in it from that community. This is a great start.




I agree that it's a great platform for Web 2.0 projects - I'm a happy 
RDBMS developer, using Zope as an application server against Postgres dbs.


I find that Formulator, ZPTs and simple scripts on the server side and 
JQuery on the client side (specifically, the JQuery Taconite 
implementation [1] with XML ZPTs) work wonderfully together.


My interest is pretty narrow, in the sense that I'm all about RDBMSs, 
tabular data, and form-driven data entry - the less guff between me the 
and the RDBMS, the happier I am. However, if I don't have much to say, 
it's only because TTW Zope development using these tools is so easy. If 
there is any interest in discussing this stuff, I am up for that.


Having said all that, I'm happy enough with the ZMI as it is, so 
Zamasing is only of academic interest to me.


FWIW, all these techniques can also be made to work seamlessly inside 
Plone without doing any actual Plone development, which can be handy 
(you really only need to work with Plone's CSS to make it look 
consistent) - a server side mash-up which avoids all the cross-site 
scripting stuff, if you like.


[1] http://www.malsup.com/jquery/taconite/


--

Regards,

PhilK


'work as if you lived in the early days of a better nation'
- alasdair gray
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Re: [Zope] anyone heard of Zamasing?

2008-04-16 Thread Garito
Jejeje, good job!
Is like I want for Zope Smart Manager (the version I have in my computer has
edition and complete the features you have in your project) but I prefer the
tree view

What a pity that our projects don't join but it's ok!

Congratulations!

2008/4/16, Philip Kilner [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Hi Tom,

 Tom Von Lahndorff wrote:

  Thats pretty awesome. It's zamazing to me that Zope 2 is not a de
  facto platform for Web 2.0 projects. I think it has some major benefits
  over Rails and maybe even Django but there seems to be no interest in it
  from that community. This is a great start.
 
 
 I agree that it's a great platform for Web 2.0 projects - I'm a happy
 RDBMS developer, using Zope as an application server against Postgres dbs.

 I find that Formulator, ZPTs and simple scripts on the server side and
 JQuery on the client side (specifically, the JQuery Taconite implementation
 [1] with XML ZPTs) work wonderfully together.

 My interest is pretty narrow, in the sense that I'm all about RDBMSs,
 tabular data, and form-driven data entry - the less guff between me the and
 the RDBMS, the happier I am. However, if I don't have much to say, it's only
 because TTW Zope development using these tools is so easy. If there is any
 interest in discussing this stuff, I am up for that.

 Having said all that, I'm happy enough with the ZMI as it is, so
 Zamasing is only of academic interest to me.

 FWIW, all these techniques can also be made to work seamlessly inside
 Plone without doing any actual Plone development, which can be handy (you
 really only need to work with Plone's CSS to make it look consistent) - a
 server side mash-up which avoids all the cross-site scripting stuff, if you
 like.

 [1] http://www.malsup.com/jquery/taconite/


 --

 Regards,

 PhilK


 'work as if you lived in the early days of a better nation'
 - alasdair gray
 ___
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 http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
 **   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
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-- 
Mis Cosas
http://blogs.sistes.net/Garito
Zope Smart Manager
http://blogs.sistes.net/Garito/670
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Re: [Zope] anyone heard of Zamasing?

2008-04-16 Thread Tim Nash
Phil,
  It is great to see more posts about how well zope works for Web
2.0 projects. I have used extjs with zope and really like the
combination. I'd like to learn more about your jquery /plone setup and
how you make it work. Would it be a time consuming for you to create a
generic product that demonstrates your setup? It would be helpful to
have a common set of artifacts to discuss.
Thanks,
Tim
ps. I can make available a generic product that demonstrates how I use
extjs if there is interest. It is pretty simple...serve a little dtml
doc which requests the gui cached in javascript. Gui makes ajax calls
back to zope for the dynamic elements.

pps. nice work zamazing! python/dtml syntax highlighting in codepress?
sweet. (but I am addicted to the mac version of Komodo)


On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 5:01 AM, Philip Kilner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi Tom,


  Tom Von Lahndorff wrote:

  Thats pretty awesome. It's zamazing to me that Zope 2 is not a de facto
 platform for Web 2.0 projects. I think it has some major benefits over
 Rails and maybe even Django but there seems to be no interest in it from
 that community. This is a great start.
 
 

  I agree that it's a great platform for Web 2.0 projects - I'm a happy RDBMS
 developer, using Zope as an application server against Postgres dbs.

  I find that Formulator, ZPTs and simple scripts on the server side and
 JQuery on the client side (specifically, the JQuery Taconite implementation
 [1] with XML ZPTs) work wonderfully together.

  My interest is pretty narrow, in the sense that I'm all about RDBMSs,
 tabular data, and form-driven data entry - the less guff between me the and
 the RDBMS, the happier I am. However, if I don't have much to say, it's only
 because TTW Zope development using these tools is so easy. If there is any
 interest in discussing this stuff, I am up for that.

  Having said all that, I'm happy enough with the ZMI as it is, so Zamasing
 is only of academic interest to me.

  FWIW, all these techniques can also be made to work seamlessly inside Plone
 without doing any actual Plone development, which can be handy (you really
 only need to work with Plone's CSS to make it look consistent) - a server
 side mash-up which avoids all the cross-site scripting stuff, if you like.

  [1] http://www.malsup.com/jquery/taconite/


  --

  Regards,

  PhilK


  'work as if you lived in the early days of a better nation'
  - alasdair gray


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Re: [Zope] anyone heard of Zamasing?

2008-04-16 Thread Garito
Hi, Tim!
I'm agree with you. I my case I use bluefish at gnome but I like TTW GUIs
because I don't need to carry my computer to work around the world and, boy,
the world is a very beautifull place to visit

I understand that Zopers want a revision of the back-end with Zope3 but at
this moment I don't understand so much the effort that suppose (it's only an
opinion without wishing to open a discussion about that decision, I respect
this decision)

My way, by other side, is about a way to work properly or better with Zope2
because Zope2 is the better place at this moment and my skills to build my
project
And, in my opinion, zamazing is the an equivalent effort and thats good for
the Zopers that think like my

The version of ZSM, for example, that I have in my computer has edition but
is not tested yet and then I would like to add a debugger (at least at the
Yanged part)

Do you imagine that you could work at every computer connected to the
internet? I think that the people who use Zope is, in part, because is TTW,
isn't it?

Congratulations again

2008/4/16, Tim Nash [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 Phil,
   It is great to see more posts about how well zope works for Web
 2.0 projects. I have used extjs with zope and really like the
 combination. I'd like to learn more about your jquery /plone setup and
 how you make it work. Would it be a time consuming for you to create a
 generic product that demonstrates your setup? It would be helpful to
 have a common set of artifacts to discuss.
 Thanks,
 Tim
 ps. I can make available a generic product that demonstrates how I use
 extjs if there is interest. It is pretty simple...serve a little dtml
 doc which requests the gui cached in javascript. Gui makes ajax calls
 back to zope for the dynamic elements.

 pps. nice work zamazing! python/dtml syntax highlighting in codepress?
 sweet. (but I am addicted to the mac version of Komodo)



 On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 5:01 AM, Philip Kilner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Hi Tom,
 
 
   Tom Von Lahndorff wrote:
 
   Thats pretty awesome. It's zamazing to me that Zope 2 is not a de
 facto
  platform for Web 2.0 projects. I think it has some major benefits over
  Rails and maybe even Django but there seems to be no interest in it from
  that community. This is a great start.
  
  
 
   I agree that it's a great platform for Web 2.0 projects - I'm a happy
 RDBMS
  developer, using Zope as an application server against Postgres dbs.
 
   I find that Formulator, ZPTs and simple scripts on the server side and
  JQuery on the client side (specifically, the JQuery Taconite
 implementation
  [1] with XML ZPTs) work wonderfully together.
 
   My interest is pretty narrow, in the sense that I'm all about RDBMSs,
  tabular data, and form-driven data entry - the less guff between me the
 and
  the RDBMS, the happier I am. However, if I don't have much to say, it's
 only
  because TTW Zope development using these tools is so easy. If there is
 any
  interest in discussing this stuff, I am up for that.
 
   Having said all that, I'm happy enough with the ZMI as it is, so
 Zamasing
  is only of academic interest to me.
 
   FWIW, all these techniques can also be made to work seamlessly inside
 Plone
  without doing any actual Plone development, which can be handy (you
 really
  only need to work with Plone's CSS to make it look consistent) - a
 server
  side mash-up which avoids all the cross-site scripting stuff, if you
 like.
 
   [1] http://www.malsup.com/jquery/taconite/
 
 
   --
 
   Regards,
 
   PhilK
 
 
   'work as if you lived in the early days of a better nation'
   - alasdair gray
 
 
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-- 
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http://blogs.sistes.net/Garito
Zope Smart Manager
http://blogs.sistes.net/Garito/670
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