Re: [Lightning-dev] [bitcoin-dev] On the scalability issues of onboarding millions of LN mobile clients

2020-05-05 Thread Luke Dashjr
On Tuesday 05 May 2020 10:17:37 Antoine Riard via bitcoin-dev wrote: > Trust-minimization of Bitcoin security model has always relied first and > above on running a full-node. This current paradigm may be shifted by LN > where fast, affordable, confidential, censorship-resistant payment

Re: [Lightning-dev] [bitcoin-dev] On the scalability issues of onboarding millions of LN mobile clients

2020-05-05 Thread Lloyd Fournier
On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 9:01 PM Luke Dashjr via bitcoin-dev < [email protected]> wrote: > On Tuesday 05 May 2020 10:17:37 Antoine Riard via bitcoin-dev wrote: > > Trust-minimization of Bitcoin security model has always relied first and > > above on runn

Re: [Lightning-dev] [bitcoin-dev] On the scalability issues of onboarding millions of LN mobile clients

2020-05-06 Thread Antoine Riard
I do see the consensus capture argument by miners but in reality isn't this attack scenario have a lot of assumptions on topology an deployment ? For such attack to succeed you need miners nodes to be connected to clients to feed directly the invalid headers and if these ones are connect

Re: [Lightning-dev] [bitcoin-dev] On the scalability issues of onboarding millions of LN mobile clients

2020-05-06 Thread Keagan McClelland
Hi Antoine, Consensus capture by miners isn't the only concern here. Consensus capture by any subset of users whose interests diverge from the overall consensus is equally damaging. The scenario I can imagine here is that the more light clients outpace full nodes, the more the costs of sec

Re: [Lightning-dev] [bitcoin-dev] On the scalability issues of onboarding millions of LN mobile clients

2020-05-12 Thread Chris Belcher
On 05/05/2020 16:16, Lloyd Fournier via bitcoin-dev wrote: > On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 9:01 PM Luke Dashjr via bitcoin-dev < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> On Tuesday 05 May 2020 10:17:37 Antoine Riard via bitcoin-dev wrote: >>> Trust-minimization

Re: [Lightning-dev] [bitcoin-dev] On the scalability issues of onboarding millions of LN mobile clients

2020-05-06 Thread Antoine Riard
What I'm thinking more is if the costs of security are being too much externalized from the light clients onto full nodes, nodes operators are just going to stop servicing light clients `peercfilters=false`. The backbone p2p network is going to be fine. But the massive LN light clients ne

Re: [Lightning-dev] [bitcoin-dev] On the scalability issues of onboarding millions of LN mobile clients

2020-05-06 Thread Keagan McClelland
m the light clients onto full nodes, nodes operators are > just going to stop servicing light clients `peercfilters=false`. The > backbone p2p network is going to be fine. But the massive LN light clients > network built on top is going to rely on centralized services for its chain > acce

Re: [Lightning-dev] [bitcoin-dev] On the scalability issues of onboarding millions of LN mobile clients

2020-05-13 Thread Antoine Riard
lure a majority of SPV clients they may not be able to stir economic nodes. SPV clients users will now have an incentive to cancel their hijacked history to stay on the most economic meaningful chain. And it's already assumed, that if you run a bitcoin business or LN routing node, you do want t