Why a Web app? Aside from portability (so I'll be using JavaScript or pyjamas, it sounds like), probably the worst reason of all (at least from a purist's perspective): employers (esp. corporate ones) want Web developers, but generally aren't willing to train on the job (at least that's been my experience) and I have very little Web development experience (and even less than that doing it on the job, with no prospect of doing it in my current job) so I figure I'm going to need to train myself, and to have evidence that I've learned a thing or two, I'd like a substantial Web app in my portfolio that I can point to when I claim that I have Web development experience. So although I'd like to think my app may have broad appeal, that's not the primary reason for writing it as a Web app. Plus, I'm in that camp that sees stand-alone apps as on their way out: the convenience of having one (kind of) platform that can run everything is just two overpowering, IMO (which is why I'm a little shocked that we still don't have a more universal solution to Web apps having to jump through hoops to do something as simple as writing to a local file--I mean, I appreciate the security risk and all, but I'd just assumed that this would have been addressed by now).
DG On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 10:31 AM, <[email protected]>wrote: > Send seattle-python mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.seapig.org/mailman/listinfo/seattle-python > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of seattle-python digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Off topic, except that I'd like to use Python for the > project (Toby Champion) > 2. Re: Off topic, except that I'd like to use Python for the > project (Alec Koumjian) > 3. Re: Off topic, except that I'd like to use Python for the > project (Mike Orr) > 4. Re: Off topic, except that I'd like to use Python for the > project (Kevin LaTona) > 5. Re: seattle-python Digest, Vol 109, Issue 12 (David Goldsmith) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 09 May 2013 08:01:23 -0700 > From: Toby Champion <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [SEAPY] Off topic, except that I'd like to use Python for > the project > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Why a web app? > > On 5/8/13 11:00 PM, David Goldsmith wrote: > > So I'm writing this GUI app using wxPython when it dawns on me: why > > don't I write it as a Web app (by which I mean Wikipedia's second > > definition, namely "[an] application that is coded in a > > browser-supported programming language...and reliant on a common web > > browser to render the application executable." Then I "discover" a > > basic problem: Web apps don't appear to be able to straightforwardly > > write to local files (doing so is a central function of the intended > > app). I tried the idea of having the Web app post form inputs to a > > compiled Python executable, which would then format the inputs and > > write the file, but, as I came to understand it, in order for all this > > to occur "locally," my app would have to run a local "server" to which > > the Web app would post and which would "run" the Python > > executable--too complicated for my purpose! (Which is to wade slowly > > into Web app development, not dive right into the deep-end.) So the > > "workaround" I'm contemplating now is to have the app create the > > text--it is meant to be straight ascii, not even unicode--and render > > it in a browser viewing object, e.g., a frame, tab, or popup, and then > > require the user to employ the browser's File->Save Page As... menu > > function to save the result. So my question is: can anyone point me > > to an example of a page that uses client-side code (preferably Python, > > of course) to process html form text inputs into a page which the code > > then renders in a new browser view object? (Yes, I know I've probably > > visited thousands of such already and just never registered that that > > is what they're doing because I've never cared before.) Thanks! > > > > OlyDLG > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 08:05:35 -0700 > From: Alec Koumjian <[email protected]> > To: Seattle Python Interest Group <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [SEAPY] Off topic, except that I'd like to use Python for > the project > Message-ID: > <CAEtQDuSBTC1BVB9Dv7dO3uSaE66= > [email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > I have not used it, but have heard good things about http://kivy.org/ > > > > On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 8:01 AM, Toby Champion <[email protected] > >wrote: > > > Why a web app? > > > > > > On 5/8/13 11:00 PM, David Goldsmith wrote: > > > >> So I'm writing this GUI app using wxPython when it dawns on me: why > don't > >> I write it as a Web app (by which I mean Wikipedia's second definition, > >> namely "[an] application that is coded in a browser-supported > programming > >> language...and reliant on a common web browser to render the application > >> executable." Then I "discover" a basic problem: Web apps don't appear > to > >> be able to straightforwardly write to local files (doing so is a central > >> function of the intended app). I tried the idea of having the Web app > post > >> form inputs to a compiled Python executable, which would then format the > >> inputs and write the file, but, as I came to understand it, in order for > >> all this to occur "locally," my app would have to run a local "server" > to > >> which the Web app would post and which would "run" the Python > >> executable--too complicated for my purpose! (Which is to wade slowly > into > >> Web app development, not dive right into the deep-end.) So the > >> "workaround" I'm contemplating now is to have the app create the > text--it > >> is meant to be straight ascii, not even unicode--and render it in a > browser > >> viewing object, e.g., a frame, tab, or popup, and then require the user > to > >> employ the browser's File->Save Page As... menu function to save the > >> result. So my question is: can anyone point me to an example of a page > >> that uses client-side code (preferably Python, of course) to process > html > >> form text inputs into a page which the code then renders in a new > browser > >> view object? (Yes, I know I've probably visited thousands of such > already > >> and just never registered that that is what they're doing because I've > >> never cared before.) Thanks! > >> > >> OlyDLG > >> > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.seapig.org/pipermail/seattle-python/attachments/20130509/10249841/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 09:09:36 -0700 > From: Mike Orr <[email protected]> > To: Seattle Python Interest Group <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [SEAPY] Off topic, except that I'd like to use Python for > the project > Message-ID: > <CAH9f=uqSY_s9z-_d_LbZ=0VoJgh_3teDk= > [email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 11:00 PM, David Goldsmith <[email protected] > >wrote: > > > So I'm writing this GUI app using wxPython when it dawns on me: why don't > > I write it as a Web app (by which I mean Wikipedia's second definition, > > namely "[an] application that is coded in a browser-supported programming > > language...and reliant on a common web browser to render the application > > executable." Then I "discover" a basic problem: Web apps don't appear to > > be able to straightforwardly write to local files (doing so is a central > > function of the intended app). > > > > You could write it as a browser plug-in. That would be mainly Javascript > but it would be able to write local files. It would be specific to one > browser type though. > > Is this program for yourself or your colleagues, or would end-users need to > install it themselves? If you have to support users long-distance, you may > want to stick to a desktop app. That way they can use a one-click installer > in their familiar manner. > > Chris and I have a hybrid web-desktop application; the desktop mode being a > wxPython application running a Pylons daemon and an embedded browser, > wrapped up in py2exe (Windows) or py2app (Mac) for the installer. It works > but it's kind of kludgey and not that excellent, and it took a while to get > py2exe to work right. Web applications are great for things that are > inherently HTMLy or thin client-y, but not so great if you need things > beyond that like writing to files, a "desktop app feel", or a "desktop app > installation experience". > > Toby wrote: > > Why a web app? > > A funny thing about this group is that because we all work in the computer > field, many of us don't trust computers any farther than we can throw them > (and the same for social networks, smartphones, etc). The boosters will > tell you to make everything a webapp (or even better a Facebook app) > because PCs are so 1990s, but you'll be happier if you ask whether it's > really a good fit for the web. > > - Can it be recast to depend only on typcal webapp capabilities and still > be *convenient* for the user? If yes, a webapp might be the way to go. If > no, you're shorehorning. > > - Is the main problem you writing a complex application, or users getting > frustrated installing/upgrading it? If the latter, a webapp will > automatically install and upgrade. If the former, the primary issue may be > what's easiest for you to write. > > - If you're looking for a target application to gain experience in web > programming, is this the right application for it? > > - There are two different kinds of web applications nowadays. The mainly > server-side ones in Pylons/Django/Flask/etc, and the mainly client-side > ones in Javascript (or perhaps Pyjamas). Each has some different > capabilities and advantages/disadvantages. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.seapig.org/pipermail/seattle-python/attachments/20130509/b32024f9/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 09:40:20 -0700 > From: Kevin LaTona <[email protected]> > To: Seattle Python Interest Group <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [SEAPY] Off topic, except that I'd like to use Python for > the project > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > > > On 5/8/13 11:00 PM, David Goldsmith wrote: > > So I'm writing this GUI app using wxPython when it dawns on me: why > > don't I write it as a Web app (by which I mean Wikipedia's second > > definition, > > > > > Some other ideas to look at for a GUI are: > > > TideSDK | Create multi-platform desktop apps with HTML5, CSS3 and > JavaScript. It has a Js to Python Bridge that looks like an > interesting idea. > http://www.tidesdk.org/ > > > Python Wrapper for Google V8 Javascript Engine > http://code.google.com/p/pyv8/ > > > PyV8 is being used in this sublime plugin > Emmet (ex-Zen Coding) for Sublime Text. ( For any sublime user this is > an interesting plugin idea worth looking at for HTML page coding. ) > https://github.com/sergeche/emmet-sublime > > > OS X GUI > The most important usage of this is writing Cocoa GUI applications on > Mac OS X in pure Python > http://pythonhosted.org/pyobjc/ > > -Kevin > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 10:31:14 -0700 > From: David Goldsmith <[email protected]> > To: Seattle Python Interest Group <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [SEAPY] seattle-python Digest, Vol 109, Issue 12 > Message-ID: > < > caftpszoidmitp6zbrab9rhahbr-4ok_wci9t3bcoslzzq84...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Thanks, guys! > > DG > > Message: 5 > > > Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 23:44:55 -0700 > > From: Jim Gray <[email protected]> > > To: Seattle Python Interest Group <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [SEAPY] Off topic, except that I'd like to use Python for > > the project > > Message-ID: > > < > > ca+y4obucdjfm4wpqesav+gacsodhbki2gzkggxhyz2wuu+r...@mail.gmail.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > I think you're talking about Flask & Flask-WTF. > > > > Jim > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > > > http://lists.seapig.org/pipermail/seattle-python/attachments/20130508/022e97d2/attachment-0001.html > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 6 > > Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 07:05:04 -0400 > > From: Chris Barker - NOAA Federal <[email protected]> > > To: Seattle Python Interest Group <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [SEAPY] Off topic, except that I'd like to use Python for > > the project > > Message-ID: <-7154996020384609227@unknownmsgid> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > > > David, > > > > Depending on what you need to do, running a python based web server is > > actually remarkably easy--there are a bunch of web frameworks that are > > each suited to different uses, but one or more is likely to suit your > > needs. > > > > That being said, an all-in-the browser app could be a fine option as > > well. Look for info on "single page" apps, or " rich Internet apps" > > for info. > > > > Note that the only language in browsers is JavaScript , so that's what > > you need to use. The exceptions to this are other languages that are > > translated to JavaScript. For python, check out pyjamas and brython. > > > > In fact, pyjamas may be just what you need ( short of using JavaScript > > directly). If you do want to go the JavaScript route, check out > > backbone.js > > > > Good luck! > > > > Chris > > > > On May 9, 2013, at 2:00 AM, David Goldsmith <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > So I'm writing this GUI app using wxPython when it dawns on me: why > > don't I write it as a Web app (by which I mean Wikipedia's second > > definition, namely "[an] application that is coded in a browser-supported > > programming language...and reliant on a common web browser to render the > > application executable." Then I "discover" a basic problem: Web apps > don't > > appear to be able to straightforwardly write to local files (doing so is > a > > central function of the intended app). I tried the idea of having the > Web > > app post form inputs to a compiled Python executable, which would then > > format the inputs and write the file, but, as I came to understand it, in > > order for all this to occur "locally," my app would have to run a local > > "server" to which the Web app would post and which would "run" the Python > > executable--too complicated for my purpose! (Which is to wade slowly > into > > Web app development, not dive right into the deep-end.) So the > > "workaround" I'm contemplating now is to have the a > > pp create the text--it is meant to be straight ascii, not even > > unicode--and render it in a browser viewing object, e.g., a frame, tab, > or > > popup, and then require the user to employ the browser's File->Save Page > > As... menu function to save the result. So my question is: can anyone > > point me to an example of a page that uses client-side code (preferably > > Python, of course) to process html form text inputs into a page which the > > code then renders in a new browser view object? (Yes, I know I've > probably > > visited thousands of such already and just never registered that that is > > what they're doing because I've never cared before.) Thanks! > > > > > > OlyDLG > > > > > > End of seattle-python Digest, Vol 109, Issue 12 > > *********************************************** > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.seapig.org/pipermail/seattle-python/attachments/20130509/a0b9296c/attachment.html > > > > End of seattle-python Digest, Vol 109, Issue 13 > *********************************************** > -- >From "A Letter From The Future" in "Peak Everything" by Richard Heinberg: "By the time I was an older teenager, a certain...attitude was developing among the young people...a feeling of utter contempt for anyone over a certain age--maybe 30 or 40. The adults had consumed so many resources, and now there were none left for their own children...when those adults were younger, they [were] just doing what everybody else was doing...they figured it was normal to cut down ancient forests for...phone books, pump every last gallon of oil to power their SUV's...[but] for...my generation all that was just a dim memory...We [grew up] living in darkness, with shortages of food and water, with riots in the streets, with people begging on street corners...for us, the adults were the enemy." Want to *really* understand what's *really* going on? Read "Peak Everything."
