Not being smart or anything but what layers in this scenerio do you see as the important ones? How would you tackle this problem?
Trevor Cushen Sysnet Ltd www.sysnet.ie Tel: +353 1 2983000 Fax: +353 1 2960499 -----Original Message----- From: theog [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 31 January 2003 00:23 To: Chris Berry; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: security scenario Well , I think that instead of dealing with how many layers one can install (and taking the time to install them) it is better (IMHO) to invest the time in making the important layers secure. having more layers won't increase your security level if you spent all the time in installing those same layers , whatmore , you have more then CDROM and Floppy to boot with (USB dev , etc...). I wouldnt use a grub password , or a bios password , as forgeting those , will cause more harm then the security benefit they provide ,writing them down or putting weak passwords is simply not worth the trouble . TheOg ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Berry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 9:44 PM Subject: Re: security scenario > >From: "theog" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >I agree , in my opinion , if someone got to the machine's keyboard , > >be it phisically or via a remote console device , he can do virtually > >anything, in fact, the simplest thing to do (if I wanted to change > >the root for a machine I dont have the password for) is to boot with > >a linux cd , mount the root partition , then do chroot , and passwd , > >so ..... no point is having a grub password for the machine if you > >have users you dont trust , with access to that machine console. > > Physical access will yield root access given time, knowledge, and > tools. That said, I still disagree, security is not one thing, it is a compilation > of little things that add up. No one is hack proof, but by adding > layer after layer of complications for the attacker, you make yourself > an uninviting target, and become hack resistant. You have to draw the > line somewhere or your administrative burden will grow greater than > you can handle, but I believe that a grub password (or requiring root > password for single user mode) would be a good idea as it's easy to > setup and maintain, but makes things a little more difficult for the > attacker (not to mention curious employees messing with things they > shouldn't be). I also think bios > passwords are a good idea, sure any monkey who can open the case can > pop the > battery and reset it, but that's one more step they have to do, and > around most workplaces you'll get quite a bit of unwanted attention if > you start taking your computer apart and you don't work in IT. On top > of this, removing the CD-ROM drive and Floppy drive from any > workstation that doesn't > require it, is a good idea as it slows them down even further, and requires > more knowledge, and some parts to bypass. With these three things in place > they'll need a screwdriver, a linux cd, a cd-rom drive, enough > knowledge to > open the case install the cd-rom, set the jumpers on cd-rom and IDE, > reset the cmos, then boot up and use their linux cd to bypass your > grub password. > Can it be done sure, is it hard, not really for a trained person, I > could probably do it in under 20 minutes, but how many people have > that level of training, and can get unobserved access to the machine > for that long? Personally I feel that would stop anything but a > determined and knowledgeable attacker who has time and physical > access. If you have good physical security (locks, alarms etc.) that > makes it even harder. If someome is determined enough to get through > all that there isn't any way you're going to stop him anyways, but I > consider that a much lower order of > probability than the kind of people who could get in without having > those three precautions. > > Chris Berry > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Systems Administrator > JM Associates > > "For Sys Admins paranoia isn't a mental health problem, its a > marketable job > skill." > > _________________________________________________________________ > STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > ************************************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this message in error please notify SYSNET Ltd., at telephone no: +353-1-2983000 or [EMAIL PROTECTED] **************************************************************************************
