Kepa, I totally agree with you on the one point - the claim of certification should be publicly disclosed, and be credible. For example, a training product that is commercially provided and certified by a State University seems credible to me at this stage in our market's evolution - one where the vendor went to Bob's Consulting Company for a certification I would be very cautious about. The same is going to hold true from products, processes, and services. That is the reason why conformance standards will separate the hype from reality - but it will take some time to get there - just as it has taken time for implementation guidelines. We all know that this will be an ongoing process without end.
As far as transactions goes, I'm not going to comment as I am not a EDI specialist. As far as the CISSP certification goes, or any other security standard being the equivalent to HIPAA certified, that's totally unrealistic - unless the final security reg says exactly that, which I doubt it will. I do hope that the final reg will go as far as the BS7799 (rather than the watered down ISO version), married with some of the language built into the FDA 21cfr11, and other HCFA, DoD, and other Federal standards in place. Tim McGuinness, Ph.D. President, HIPAA Help Now Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> www.hipaahelpnow.com <http://www.hipaahelpnow.com/> Executive Co-Chairman for Privacy, HIPAA Conformance Certification Organization (HCCO) www.hipaacertification.org <http://www.hipaacertification.org/> __________________________________________________________________ Tim McGuinness, Ph.D. - Instant Access Phone: 727-787-3901 Cell: 305-753-4149 Fax: 240-525-1149 Instant Messengers: ICQ# 22396626 - MSN IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Yahoo IM timmcguinness - AOL IM: mcguinnesstim __________________________________________________________________ =========================================================================== IMPORTANT NOTICE: This communication, including any attachment, contains information that may be confidential or privileged, and is intended solely for the entity or individual to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender at once, and you should delete this message and are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message is strictly prohibited. Nothing in this email, including any attachment, is intended to be a legally binding signature. -----Original Message----- From: Kepa Zubeldia [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 1:39 AM To: David W. Loewy; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Meyer, Perry'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Certifications David, Tim, Before you keep going too far on that line, there is a significant difference between "certifying" an entity or a product to "be" HIPAA compliant (personally I don't see how this would happen) and certifying that a specific set of transactions is in compliance with the HIPAA transaction implementation guides. To verify whether a transaction is in compliance with the HIPAA Implementation Guide is a process that is totally deterministic and objective, and can be verified and validated by a number of third parties. In any case, the process must be disclosed and verifiable by third parties and by the relying parties. An entity relying on the certification of a transaction as being compliant should be able to know what was the exact content of the transaction that was certified. And the certification of a transaction as compliant does not automatically extend to the software that generated the transaction in a generic mode. While you can say that the software is capable of generating HIPAA compliant transaction(s), you cannot say that all the transactions generated by that software will always be compliant. However, if the sample size is sufficiently large and representative of the business of the provider or payer that generates these transactions, then you could establish a level of confidence that future transactions will also be compliant. But, again, this does not extend to the software or the entity in as generic way. For instance, the fact that you can generate compliant office visits does not mean much when you need to generate DME claims. For this reason it is important that the certification of transactions as compliant be well documented and publicly disclosed. So, lets qualify the statements. When organizations claim to "be" HIPAA Certified, or to offer "certified" training, or to have certified HIPAA transactions they should try to "prove it". I bet they will not be able to prove they "are" compliant, or that their software or training is certified, but we can prove their TRANSACTIONS are or are not compliant. The testing and certification of TRANSACTIONS for HIPAA compliance is documented in the SNIP white paper on that topic. There is a new version that has been approved for publication (version 3.0) that should be posted in the web site in the next few days. Please understand that it does not address certification of entities, software, systems or training programs, only certification of transactions. Kepa Zubeldia Claredi PS: cross posting of messages like this is spam. On Friday 30 August 2002 11:19 am, David W. Loewy wrote: From: "David W. Loewy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "'Meyer, Perry'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > I agree as well, I am constantly amazed when I see organizations > referring to being either HIPAA Certified or offering HIPAA > Certification!! And there are more than a handful I've seen recently! > > > David W. Loewy > President > Health Providers Practice Management, LLC. > Publishers of The HIPAA Survival Kit for Providers > 617.739.6665 (voice) > 601.415.0007 (mobile) > > > <http://www.hipaacertification.org/> > www.hipaacertification.org > NOTE: The information contained in this message is intended only for use > by the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This message may > contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from > disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, > you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying > of this information strictly prohibited. If you have received this > communication in error, please notify us immediately and delete the > original message. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 12:58 PM > To: Meyer, Perry; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; > [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; > [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Certifications > > > Perry, your point is very valid! > > As stated by the agencies, it isn't the role of the government to > "Certify" a product, service, or process relating to HIPAA. > Certifications by their nature certifications require a process of > accreditation, credentialing, and ideally broad support. I have no > knowledge of what the vendor in question bases their "certification" on, > and without full disclosure of that basis I view its claim as suspect, > however there is at least one validly certified training/education > product in the market - certified/credentialed by a State University > System. > > However, this specific problem has resulted in the creation of a > separate body to address this issue of developing HIPAA conformance > certification standards. This activity is complementary to the work of > the other HIPAA bodies, and recognizing the urgency of this for covered > entities and industry alike, has begun and hopes to publish a > significant body of work rapidly. > > This also raises another important point - full disclosure. Some on > this listserv express offense at participants including their company > names in their replies and messages. Personally, I want to know who it > is that is expressing their opinions and who they represent, and in what > capacity. I appreciate a weblink also, making it easy to view their > context. Without this disclosure, we do not have the ability to > properly weight their credentials or perspective in these issues. Each > of us needs to be able to evaluate each posted statement and not simply > take everything said as fact or legal opinion - this one included. So I > would encourage all to be candid in their signatures for these reasons > and recognize the difference between spam commercialism and simple > honest disclosure. > > Tim McGuinness, Ph.D. > President, > HIPAA Help Now Inc. > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > www.hipaahelpnow.com > > Executive Co-Chairman for Privacy, > HIPAA Conformance Certification Organization (HCCO) > www.hipaacertification.org > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Meyer, Perry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 8:24 AM > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; > [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; > [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: WEDI SNIP Forum to be Rescheduled!!! > > > Just curious, but does CMS or OCR recognize "certified" HIPAA training? > I see no mention of this in the regs. I think we need to be very > careful in promoting something as "certified" when it comes to HIPAA. > > Perry Meyer > Senior Vice President > Iowa Hospital Association > To be removed from this listserv, please email [EMAIL PROTECTED] <P>The WEDI SNIP listserv to which you are subscribed is not moderated. The discussions on this listserv therefore represent the views of the individual participants, and do not necessarily represent the views of the WEDI Board of Directors nor WEDI SNIP. If you wish to receive an official opinion, post your question to the WEDI SNIP Issues Database at http://snip.wedi.org/tracking/. Posting of advertisements or other commercial use of this listserv is specifically prohibited. <P>The WEDI SNIP listserv to which you are subscribed is not moderated. The discussions on this listserv therefore represent the views of the individual participants, and do not necessarily represent the views of the WEDI Board of Directors nor WEDI SNIP. If you wish to receive an official opinion, post your question to the WEDI SNIP Issues Database at http://snip.wedi.org/tracking/. Posting of advertisements or other commercial use of this listserv is specifically prohibited.
