On 16 Nov 99, 12:32, Tong Sun wrote:
> Yes. I agree that grammar is important, as a general case. But for my
> particular case, it is different. You know, for a Chinese to come
> abroad, the minimum score of toefl he has should be 600. Normal Chinese
> get toefl mark around 620 to 640. (not me :-< ) and Their GRE score is
> around 2200 and up. They know every corner of English grammar. But the
> problem is that they can't write good articles in English. See, here is
> my point.
>
> > Regardless of language, you learn writing by practice. The more you
> > write the better you get. You need to find forums that make you write
> > often or else just do this on your own. I think we might be able to
> > find you mailing lists in this vein.
>
> I talk and write in English everyday. But that is in my way. If my
> usage of English confuse people 3 years before, it is still confusing
> people now. I think the better approach to improve writing is to
> listen more and read more, and to know how to improve.
You really cannot judge solely the writing skills of the general
American public by the output found in the Internet. I believe that
the majority of Americans and other peoples whose first language is
English and participate in the Internet, have above average
Intelligence. That often shows in their writing.
Without hesitation, I can say to you that your English writing is now
superior to the average US American. As to the North Americans; the
English; the Australians; and other English speaking peoples
participating in the Internet, your writing skills fair very well. You
have nothing to apologize for and should take pride in the skills you
have thus learned.
> Hopefully I have expressed myself clearly enough. And let me express
> more with the examples that interests me most:
>
> I have found some resource on the web, just FYI, incase someone else is
> also interested:
>
> Spectrum Virtual University
>
> -- excerption --
> Learn to organize your thoughts, express ideas and opinions clearly
> and convincingly, and sharpen your writing skills in this six week
> course. The "power writing" techniques that you will learn in this
> class can benefit anyone wanting to communicate more effectively using
> the written word. You'll discover why, as the old saying goes, "the
> pen is mightier than the sword!" -- excerption --
>
> Oh, gee, this is the idea I want to express. But words failed me when I
> wrote. Check it out the "Spectrum Virtual University Lessons" at:
>
> http://www.vu.org/calendar.html
>
>
> Online English
>
> -- excerption --
> I will prepare a lesson for you every week and send it to you by
> e-mail - one week: one lesson. Best regards,
>
> The lessons will have exercises on useful vocabulary, grammar, reading
> and listening comprehension
>
> you will get 52 lessons... and your English will IMPROVE!
>
> I hope you will benefit from my program - it's free.
> -- excerption --
You can see what that teacher is going to do. He is going to make you
write! You will write texts over and over. You will learn by practice
more effective writing, but in a controlled atmosphere. Is that what
you want? You wish a formal, rigid curriculum? If yes, as you can
see, most of these type of online courses cost money in which to
enroll. However, if you can muster a little self discipline, you
really do not need to pay someone else to make you write.
> http://mypage.direct.ca/p/prossett/online.html
> or http://www.geocities.com/athens/olympus/9260/online.html
That one is a free program by e-mail. You could try that.
> Writer's Guide
>
> The University of Victoria's Hypertext Writer's Guide.
> http://webserver.maclab.comp.uvic.ca/writersguide/welcome.html
>
> The Curmudgeon's Stylebook By Bill Walsh
>
> -- excerption --
> Part 1: WORD CHOICE AND MATTERS OF FACT
> Part 2: CAPITALIZATION, COMPOUNDS, SPELLING AND STYLE
> Part 3: PUNCTUATION
> Part 4: QUOTATIONS
> Part 5: MATTERS OF SENSITIVITY
> Part 6: HEADLINES, CAPTIONS AND NEWSPAPER ISSUES
> -- excerption --
> http://www.theslot.com/contents.html
That looks like a good reference site.
> MLA Guide for Writing Research Papers
> http://webster.commnet.edu/mla.htm
...another good reference site.
> So, I hope by now my meaning of "practical and application oriented."
> is clear. Alan, see, grammatically correct can't make me express
> efficiently so you know what I was talking about and no misunderstanding
> and confusion at first place. :-)
>
> Hope my seeking task interests some of you and I got more resources from
> you. Thanks
Let me send you to one site that offers free workshops and mailing
lists to which I think you will benefit. The site is called
"WordWeave":
http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/Veranda/2932/wordweav/index.html
At ONElist, Egroups and elsewhere, there are several mailing lists
devoted to writing. You write and group members critique your writing.
This helps you to improve by seeing how others perceive your writing
and the benefits of practice. For example, many of the mailing lists
offered at the WordWeave site are managed at ONElist.com.
Good writing does not always come from following all the rules
perfectly. It often manifests itself in creative thinking -- being
inspired with an original idea and the manner to which you communicate
that idea. When you write with the passion of inspiration, your
writing can not help but reach new plateaus.
In that vein, ask yourself what topic or subject brings out your
passions? You should subscribe to mailing lists that mirror that
passion so that you will be inspired to write often to others who share
your same interests. You can benefit as much from those type of forums
as you would from writing forums.
BTW...not only is your English excellent, your WWW searching skills are
very good, too. You found some great sites on your own toward that
which you were seeking. :-)
Okay...let me toss some WWW sites at you and recommend some mailing
lists:
---------------------------------
http://owl.english.purdue.edu/
OWL = Online Writing Lab. See that heading on the page.
------
Reference site...
http://www.iss.stthomas.edu/studyguides/
------
The World of Writing...
http://www.bloorstreet.com/300block/3author.htm
------
4-Writers.com
http://4-writers.com/
------
Black on White
http://www.bfree.on.ca/bow/welcome.html
------
More resources and links...
http://www.stetson.edu/~rhansen/writing.html
------
WritersWrite - informative journal
http://www.writerswrite.com/journal/
------
ESL Study Hall (Links)
http://gwis2.circ.gwu.edu/~gwvcusas/
http://gwis2.circ.gwu.edu/~gwvcusas/shwriting.htm
------
ABCheckers
http://webnz.com/checkers/
------
About.com's Technical writing site
http://techwriting.about.com/arts/techwriting/
***********
Mailing lists at ONElist and EGroups
http://www.onelist.com/community/ewriting
http://www.onelist.com/community/interesting_stories
http://www.onelist.com/community/-5_minute_writer
http://www.onelist.com/community/wordwizards
http://www.onelist.com/community/writer
http://www.onelist.com/community/writerbuddy
http://www.onelist.com/community/Writercise
http://www.onelist.com/community/WriterResource
http://www.onelist.com/community/writers-cafe
http://www.onelist.com/community/WritersPub
http://www.onelist.com/community/writers_haven
http://www.onelist.com/community/Writers_Soup
http://www.onelist.com/community/WriteThing
http://www.onelist.com/community/Write_List
http://www.onelist.com/community/WritingPerc
http://www.onelist.com/community/WritingTips
(WritingPerc looks best for discussion; WritingTips best for resources.
I also recommend the WordWeave lists at ONElist.com that you can learn
about from the URL I referenced above.)
http://www.egroups.com/list/rwufmg/info.html
http://www.egroups.com/list/voices/info.html
http://www.egroups.com/list/writers_cafe/info.html
http://www.egroups.com/list/betterwriting/info.html
http://www.egroups.com/list/express/info.html
(Betterwriting looks like a good resource newsletter)
Sun Tong, I leave you with just one last word:
Write! :-)
Alan
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
