On 11/02/2011 08:17, Benedikt Kaempgen wrote: > Hi, > > The RDFa extension is fine as long as you want the semantic information as > RDFa available somewhere on the page. > > With Inline Editing we mean to let users directly change annotations on the > rendered page, which would be quite convenient. This is separate of the goal > of having RDFa descriptions on the page. However, you can bring both goals > together: > > If the users simply change text on the rendered page, the system cannot know > which (and whether at all an) annotation was changed. However, if the changed > item is surrounded by RDFa tags, the system would know, what page and > property to update and, for instance, could forward this to SMWWriter.
Exactly. I hope that reduces John's confusion. One could also add that it would actually be nice to have the RDFa at the same place as the corresponding text, since there are some browser extensions that highlight RDFa data sources in the document (and IMHO the main point of RDFa is to embed facts into document context). > > So, my goal would be to have the RDFa integrated where possible (not the > special cases, Yaron and Markus mentioned). I think, the values do not need > to carry the whole triple information. For property-value-pairs of the page, > the page would provide the subject URI (xml:base), the values would provide > the property and value, only. For property-value-pairs queried from other > pages, the query could carry the subject URI, the values could carry the > property and values. Is there a way to do this by an extension? > Good news: * There is one unique code place through which all data values that appear on the page are passing, and both property and value are known at this point. Bad news: * Everything that gets inserted at this stage must be allowed in MediaWiki (a little less, actually, since half of the parsing is already through). So injecting suitable RDFa into the output would work, but only if you can also find a secure way that would allow normal users to do so by writing wiki text. Of course, namespaces could be pre-declared in the header to simplify this (and to restrict to statements about the wiki). This may or may not be difficult to solve, but there should be some solution. Anyway, this would give you RDFa for all link-style annotations on a page (adding it to #set would be easy, too, but there is no context in the page in this case anyway). Of course, you could still only edit some of these instances with SMWWriter, and there is no easy way of identifying them when you create the output (during link parsing, all information about templates is already gone). Regards, Markus > > -- > Karlsruhe Institute of Technology (KIT) > Institute of Applied Informatics and Formal Description Methods (AIFB) > > Benedikt Kämpgen > Research Associate > > Kaiserstraße 12 > Building 11.40 > 76131 Karlsruhe, Germany > > Phone: +49 721 608-47946 (!new since 1 January 2011!) > Fax: +49 721 608-46580 (!new since 1 January 2011!) > Email: benedikt.kaemp...@kit.edu > Web: http://www.kit.edu/ > > KIT - University of the State of Baden-Wuerttemberg and > National Research Center of the Helmholtz Association > > -----Original Message----- > From: John McClure [mailto:jmccl...@hypergrove.com] > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 1:08 AM > To: 'Markus Krotzsch'; Benedikt Kaempgen > Cc: 'smw dev list' > Subject: RE: [SMW-devel] Inline Editing Functionality by using RDFa > > Hi, > This comment confuses me a bit! Extension:RDFa uses the requested page as > the subject; I don't see the need to incorporate Inline Editing for Special > Pages or queries. Maybe there is a problem with the RDFa extension?? I'd > like to know because I was hoping to use it in the very near future. > Thanks, > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: Markus Krotzsch [mailto:mar...@semantic-mediawiki.org] > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 1:06 PM > To: Benedikt Kaempgen > Cc: smw dev list > Subject: Re: [SMW-devel] Inline Editing Functionality by using RDFa > > > On 10/02/2011 16:09, Benedikt Kaempgen wrote: >> Hello, >> >> I would like to add Inline Editing functionality to SMW, so that users can >> edit values of properties directly when clicking on them. >> >> One way to this would be to have some RDFa surrounding the annotations so >> that after a user has changed the embedded html, a script in the back > would >> know from the RDFa which page and property to update. >> >> There is an RDFa extension, however, it does not embed the RDFa but only >> adds it to the beginning of the page, so that the html is not linked to > the >> actual properties. >> >> I was looking to either hook into the annotation parsers ([[...::...]] and >> {{#ask...}}) or the query parsers (SMWAsk class) to add the RDFa to the >> wikitext/html output, but both times didn't find a suitable place to add > the >> RDFa without editing SMW core. >> >> Any ideas and comments on this would be appreciated. > > Having optional RDFa embedding in pages would be nice. It should > normally be added when displaying values. Then the data would appear on > all pages where the values are shown, whether on special pages, in > queries, or on the page itself. This would be nice. The problem with > this is that the SMW value objects do not know their subject (they > sometimes know their property, for typing information, but never their > subject). And the way they are retrieved, it may even happen that they > do not have a subject in all cases (e.g. when you view all values of a > property, then one value may belong to many subjects). So not all places > really would allow for proper RDFa export in the end. I am also slightly > concerned about the change in data model that it would imply if we > generally would store whole triples in single values. > > But there is currently no SMW-internal representation of a "triple" for > representing wiki data -- everything is lists of properties and lists of > values. This makes it hard to find a good place to get the information > from for RDFa export in a universal sense (i.e. not just on pages). But > if we can live without this, then one could still enable RDFa embedding > on the pages where the data is originally given. This would probably not > be very useful, since the same page already has a link to the complete > RDF export, but who knows. Maybe some search engines like it ... > > After this, the problem is locating the right spot for making a change, > as mentioned by Yaron. This amounts to something that is similar to what > SMWWriter attempts to do (and does successfully in many cases). So I > think it would be feasible in some cases, but problematic in general. > > Regards, > > Markus > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: > Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. > Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. > Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb > _______________________________________________ > Semediawiki-devel mailing list > Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: > Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. > Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle. > Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance. > http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb > > > > _______________________________________________ > Semediawiki-devel mailing list > Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE: Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen. 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