MW is a CMS and SMW is a SCMS. Simple :)
On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 12:27 AM, Yaron Koren <ya...@wikiworks.com> wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> MediaWiki is a CMS, and so is MW + SMW - first and foremost, it's a way to
> manage content.
>
> Also, please keep the discussion civil - even if you think someone's being
> uncivil to you, the best approach is to de-escalate and focus on the issues.
>
> -Yaron
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 1:36 PM, John McClure <jmccl...@hypergrove.com>wrote:
>
>> Markus, your stunning words below may be confusing to more than me. MW
>> is a CMS, SMW is /not/. Discussing 'surface syntax' of MW's wikitext, is
>> so irrelevant to SMW's semantic annotations of that wikitext, that I
>> don't know where to even begin...
>>
>> If you'd rather not discuss the options I raised, that's perfectly fine!
>> But throwing a brick through a window, is not.
>> /jmc
>>
>> On 11/10/2013 11:42 PM, Markus Krötzsch wrote:
>> > Hi John,
>> >
>> > The main point of my previous email was to explain that SMW does not
>> > implement the CWA (or OWA). The terms CWA and OWA are used to
>> > characterise knowledge representation formalisms. SMW, in contrast, is
>> > a content management software. It has neither a formal syntax nor a
>> > formal semantics. To say that "SMW implements the CWA" is similar to
>> > saying that "SMW is green".
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> >
>> > Markus
>> >
>> >
>> > On 10/11/13 17:26, John McClure wrote:
>> >> Hi Markus - thank you for your explanation of OWA -- for more, see also
>> >> [1] [2]. My question is about the default for a property's type, so
>> >> let's focus prescriptively on this.
>> >>
>> >> In OWL, two classes are used to define a property: ObjectProperty and
>> >> DatatypeProperty; in RDF, just one. OWL permits us to sidestep this
>> >> issue at hand because the range is indicated by the semantics of the
>> >> relevant property class. RDF properties otoh do not force any
>> >> committment about the range.
>> >>
>> >> Because there is a single "Property" wiki-namespace, SMW essentially
>> >> implements <rdf:Property rdf:about='x'>, injecting <rdf:type
>> >> rdf:resource='owl:ObjectProperty'/> when no type annotation is
>> provided.
>> >> Of course this is not equivalent to <owl:ObjectProperty
>> rdf:about='x'/>.
>> >> In RDF, <rdf:Property rdf:about='x'> without a range means that either
>> a
>> >> resource or literal can be the target of a triple whose predicate is
>> >> Property:x.
>> >>
>> >> So I'm thinking of four options to clarify the situation - you may have
>> >> others!
>> >> 1) document the CWA that SMW implements
>> >> 2) establish two property namespaces, vis a vis OWL
>> >> 3) permit either text or page/subobject as targets
>> >> 4) refuse to create a triple similar to datatype violations
>> >>
>> >> Just a few ideas kicking around -
>> >> thanks
>> >> [1] http://www.mkbergman.com/852/
>> >> [2] http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~drummond/presentations/OWA.pdf
>> >> <http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/%7Edrummond/presentations/OWA.pdf>
>> >>
>> >> On 11/10/2013 2:33 AM, Markus Krötzsch wrote:
>> >>> On 10/11/13 10:43, Niklas Laxström wrote:
>> >>>> What is OWA?
>> >>>
>> >>> John refers to the "Open World Assumption". This is an informal
>> >>> concept used in knowledge representation to describe the assumption
>> >>> that statements that are not made are "unknown" rather than "false".
>> >>> This is contrasted with the "Closed World Assumption" that is common
>> >>> in databases, where we assume that unspecified information is false.
>> >>>
>> >>> For example, if the ACME company has a database that contains a table
>> >>> for employees, and this table does not contain "Bob", then one would
>> >>> assume that Bob is not an employee at ACME. In contrast, if an OWL
>> >>> ontology contains information about people (e.g., using FOAF), and the
>> >>> ontology does not contain Bob, one would not assume that Bob is not a
>> >>> person (maybe Bob just has not created a FOAF file). If we want to say
>> >>> that Bob is not a person in OWL, then we can do this directly by using
>> >>> negation; in databases, this is usually not possible and we simply
>> >>> assume that omitted information is negated.
>> >>>
>> >>> OWA is closely related to what we call "monotonicity": the more
>> >>> information we enter into a system, the more informative it becomes.
>> >>> Databases are not monotonic in this sense: if I enter that Bob is an
>> >>> employee, then I add some information (that "Bob is an employee") but
>> >>> I also remove some information (that "Bob is not an employee"). OWL is
>> >>> monotonic, but other knowledge representation languages are not.
>> >>>
>> >>> What John refers to is that SMW assumes a default type for properties
>> >>> (Page). Therefore, the input behaviour is not monotonic: if you
>> >>> specify another type later, then this will make the formerly true type
>> >>> Page false. However, this is not a "violation" of the OWA. Wikitext is
>> >>> just a surface syntax and not the internal knowledge model of SMW.
>> >>> Wikitext can never be monotonic: for example, if a page contains
>> >>> "[[someprop::somevalue]]" and you add an input character "X" to obtain
>> >>> "[X[someprop::somevaue]]" then SMW will no longer contain the fact.
>> >>> Parser functions, templates, comments, etc. will all lead to similar
>> >>> effects.
>> >>>
>> >>> Clearly, it makes no sense for a surface syntax to be monotonic in
>> >>> this sense: a meaningful notion of monotonicity cannot refer to the
>> >>> character level. However, the only other structure that wikitext has
>> >>> is the DOM tree of templates and parser functions. Basic SMW fact
>> >>> syntax and MW category syntax does not feature there at all (it is
>> >>> just character data). So it does not work for defining a meaningful
>> >>> notion of monotonicity either. The simple conclusion is that wikitext
>> >>> is not a formal specification language, and that applying knowledge
>> >>> representation concepts like OWA and monotonicity to it is not
>> >>> meaningful.
>> >>>
>> >>> If you want information specified in a formal knowledge representation
>> >>> format, then you can use the OWL/RDF exports of SMW. These exports
>> >>> have a monotonic semantics that is based on the OWA.
>> >>>
>> >>> Markus
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
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Cheers,
Nischay Nahata
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