On Thursday 23 November 2006 11:02, Markus Krötzsch wrote: > On Tuesday 21 November 2006 02:42, Christopher Baker wrote: > > Im not sure what you mean by allowing one to manipulate the wiki as a > > database. Could you clarify that for me? > > He probably referred to the fact that
Oops, I forgot to finish this sentence :-)
... in SMW you can store data values and relationships in a structured way,
comparable to what you do in a database (though without a fixed schema).
-- Markus
>
> > The problem with allowing direct PHP code to bde input would be security.
> > One could easily execute malitous code. When I finish the extension, the
> > code will basically be transformed into php code for execution.
> >
> > Any other thoughts or suggestions?
>
> It is complicated. This is a problem for use in a wiki, which is supposed
> to be simple (it currently isn't so simple anyway). But there sure are
> technically inclined communities who like to have such additional power.
> One still should once ask the question: "If someone really tries hard, how
> cryptic does the current syntax allow the code to become?"
>
> I also see a lot of work (which should not disencourage you!). Programmatic
> formatting is convenient to the programmer, but it can become a great
> burdon for implementation and practical maintenance. Security will be an
> issue, since the interpreter is more complex, and since there might be ways
> of sneaking unwanted PHP code and/or unwanted HTML code into the system.
>
> As I see it, your approach mixes a formatting language for tables with a
> programmatic query language (actually, it seems to me that the principle
> computational complexity of the queries might even be higher for your
> approach than for the original ask). If you want to go this way, I would
> suggest you to take a step-wise approach:
>
> 1) Think about what new tasks the language should allow you to solve;
> collect use-cases ("Where would I need which capability?"). Also think
> about what the language must avoid (e.g. "The language should not allow the
> encoding of infinite loops.")
> 2) Look at other query languages that may satisfy your requirements already
> (e.g. SPARQL would be suggestive as a base query language).
> 3) If you find that you need a new language, think about which fundamental
> operations are needed to achieve the above. This is a trade-off between
> power and unmaintainability.
> 4) Define a nice syntax. Either for your new language or for using the
> language that you found suitable in (2) within the wiki.
>
> As I see it, you currently do (3) and (4) in parallel, but do not have a
> clear concept of (1). For instance, I notice that your language does not
> have conditionals. Is this by choice, since there are no use-cases
> interesting to you in which this is needed? Do you then provide any
> Template support for output formatting? What if a template contains
> conditional statements? What if one modifies a list while iterating over
> it? ...
>
> Good luck,
>
> Markus
>
> > Christopher Baker
> >
> > On 11/20/06, Fernando Correia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > I'm just beginning to use Semantic MediaWiki. I think it improves very
> > > much on MediaWiki.
> > >
> > > One thing that it does is to allow us to manipulate the wiki as a
> > > database.
> > >
> > > Based on this point of view, I think your proposal will enhance the
> > > product and allow the users to extract and manipulate information in a
> > > richer way.
> > >
> > > Just a thought: have you considered allowing the user to express this
> > > logic in PHP, and have one or more PHP classes to easily work with the
> > > query? One more programming language in the world...
> > >
> > > Congratulations for the good work!
> > >
> > > 2006/11/19, Christopher Baker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > > > I realize the length of this email, but i would greatly appreciate it
> > > > if anybody would add their input. anythnig would help, really.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I was thinking recently about creating an element similar to ask
> > > > (intended to work with the current ask, not replace it) that was of a
> > > > more code-like nature, allowing for more control over display. It
> > > > would have functions such as add, sub, div, and mult (each operating
> > > > on two numbers) and also a sum, which would add up all the integer
> > > > values.
> > > >
> > > > There would also be a "query" function, which would take several sets
> > > > of parameters. (more on this later) and would return an object that
> > > > was refered to via other functions (attribute, attributes, relation,
> > > > and relations). Brief descriptions follow. (Q refers to the object
> > > > that query(...) returned, S refers to a string, F refers to a float,
> > > > (...) is a list, Lrefers to a list, D refers to a dictionary.
> > > > functions are called with paranthesis. every line ends with a ";". if
> > > > you wish a semicolon in the code, you must escape it as in many other
> > > > languages (ie: "\;"). comments are shown with "//" and continue till
> > > > the next unescaped semicolon. note that the bold is for demonstrating
> > > > only and will not be in the final result.)
> > > > (the "dictionary" refered to above is a python-esque dictionary. this
> > > > means that there is a key (which is a string) which coresponds to a
> > > > list (may be a list of strings or a list of floats, but must be all
> > > > the same))
> > > >
> > > > the values of a dictionary may be refered to via D[S]=L, where S is
> > > > the name of the key.
> > > > queries are acceptable in place of dictionaries as parameters, but
> > > > dictionaries are not acceptable as queries.
> > > > extra whitespace at the begining and ending of lines will be ignored.
> > > >
> > > > D=query((S),(S),S); // the first list of strings is page names (using
> > > > * for a wildcard). the last string (the one not in a list) is the
> > > > sort. The second list is very similar to the current ask. the list
> > > > might look somethnig like
> > > > ("category:checkbook","date:=+","date:=*","amount:=*","who:=*","memo:
> > > >=* ","chnum:=+","chnum:=*");
> > > >
> > > > D=attribute(S,Q); // the given string is the name of an attribute
> > > > (error if not extant in Q ). the keys of D are the names of pages and
> > > > the lists are lists of the values of the attribute;
> > > > D=attributes(S,Q); // the given string is the name of a page (error
> > > > if not extant in Q). the keys of D are the names of attributes and
> > > > the lists are lists of the values of the coresponding attribute;
> > > > D=relation(S,Q); // the given string is the name of a relation (error
> > > > if not extant in Q). the keys of D are the names of pages and the
> > > > lists are lists of the values of the relation;
> > > > D=relations(S,Q); // the given string is the name of a page (error if
> > > > not extant in Q). the keys of D are the names of relations and the
> > > > lists are lists of the values of the coresponding relations;
> > > >
> > > > F=add(F,F); // return the two added together;
> > > > F=sub(F,F); // return the first minus the second;
> > > > F=mult(F,F); // return the two multiplied together;
> > > > F=div(F,F); // return the first divided by the second;
> > > >
> > > > F=sum(D); // adds up all the values. error if it entounters a string.
> > > > the key is ignored. can be used on the output of attribute,
> > > > attributes, or query.;
> > > >
> > > > F=length(D); // returns the number of keys in the dictionary or
> > > > query;
> > > >
> > > > the following is an example: (note no boldface is used)
> > > >
> > > > // begin example;
> > > >
> > > > q=query(("+"),("category:checkbook","date:=+","date:=*","amount:=*","
> > > >wh o:=*","memo:=*","chnum:=+","chnum:=*"),"chnum");
> > > > print(sum(attribute("amount",q)));
> > > > print("\n\n\n");
> > > > bal=0;
> > > > rowh(("No","Pay to the order of","Memo","Date","Amount","Balance"));
> > > > // this will be explained later
> > > > foreach(q,title) // this will be explained later
> > > > {
> > > > a=attributes(title,q);
> > > > row((a["chnum"],a["who"],a["memo"],a["date"],a["amount"],bal));
> > > > // this will be explained later
> > > > bal=add(bal,a["amount"]);
> > > > };
> > > > row(("","","","","",bal));
> > > > rowf(); // this will be explained later
> > > > // end example;
> > > >
> > > > the following is an explaination of the new function, as well as a
> > > > few more not used above (following the same conventions as above):
> > > >
> > > > rowh((S)); // creates a header for a table like the current ask does.
> > > > the strings are the title of the columns;
> > > > row((S or F)); // adds a row to the current table. the items will
> > > > print in the same order as they appear;
> > > > rowf(); // ends the current table;
> > > >
> > > > foreach(D,variable) {...}; // iterates through the query, assigning
> > > > the variable (do not quote it) to the value of the key. also works
> > > > with queries. the contents inside "{" and "}" are the same as
> > > > elsewhere, except that they have another variable with which to work;
> > > >
> > > > print(S or F); // prints the string or float;
> > > >
> > > > table(Q); // print the query as the current ask would;
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To anybody who got this far, or gave input: Thank you very much!
> > > >
> > > > Christopher Baker
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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--
Markus Krötzsch
Institute AIFB, University of Karlsruhe, D-76128 Karlsruhe
[EMAIL PROTECTED] phone +49 (0)721 608 7362
www.aifb.uni-karlsruhe.de/WBS/ fax +49 (0)721 693 717
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