On Mar 24, 2010, at 3:08 PM, Martin Reisenhofer wrote: > Hi, > > You can do dynamic config by installing / uninstall osgi bundles at runtime > with the configuration, then everthing work right. You see all the standards > are very useful for programming, but not for the end user who has to > configurate. I hope when i am finshed with my project i am also finished with > the osgi management gui.
I'd say if you are using a gui for this you are doing it a very hard and unreliable way... I recommend using karaf. I'm not sure what karaf by itself has in it for assembling custom servers, but in geronimo we have a slightly modified karaf + a way to assemble a server with whatever jars you want installed. If you are interested I can give you some more details.... the geronimo dev list might be better. thanks david jencks > > thx > > Martin > > > Steve Brewin schrieb: >> Hi David >> >> In OSGi, aren't the instantiations torn down and recreated when the >> configuration is changed, even via admin? This is what I meant by >> 'immutable', though on rereading my post I can see it was badly phrased. >> >> As you say, and I tried to suggest, modifying (my transforming) the >> Blueprint plan seems to be the way to go. There doesn't seem to be a need >> for something more dynamic to meet my understanding of the use-case >> described. >> >> Cheers >> -- Steve >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: David Jencks [mailto:[email protected]] >>> Sent: 24 March 2010 19:17 >>> To: James Developers List >>> Subject: Re: James and Spring / Osgi >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mar 22, 2010, at 2:27 PM, Steve Brewin wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> You might want to talk to the guys over at Aries - >>>> http://incubator.apache.org/aries/blueprint.html - an >>>> >>> implementation >>> >>>> of >>>> Blueprint, which is OSGI's implementation of Spring DM as >>>> >>> an OSGi R4 >>> >>>> V4.2 >>>> standard. >>>> >>>> Both OSGI and Blueprint configurations are immutable after >>>> instantiation. >>>> >>> That's not really true. Plain osgi has config admin. It >>> hasn't made >>> it into a spec yet but rfc 156 is specifying how osgi config admin >>> relates to blueprint, and aries blueprint has support now, and I'm >>> pretty sure spring blueprint does too (they are building the >>> ri). (I >>> don't know if there are other blueprint implementations out). >>> >>> However, this kind of config support doesn't sound like what you are >>> looking for -- I think you just want to deploy more than one >>> blueprint >>> plan, one for each mail server instance. >>> >>> thanks >>> david jencks >>> >>> >>>> To satisfy this usecase, if I have understood it correctly, >>>> >>> why not >>> >>>> apply >>>> transforms to a default configuration in a start up script >>>> >>> to set the >>> >>>> configuration specifics prior to start-up? >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> >>>> -- Steve >>>> >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Martin Reisenhofer [mailto:[email protected]] >>>>> Sent: 22 March 2010 08:39 >>>>> To: James Developers List >>>>> Subject: Re: James and Spring / Osgi >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No problem >>>>> >>>>> Thx >>>>> >>>>> Martin >>>>> >>>>> Norman Maurer schrieb: >>>>> >>>>>> Uff.. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think I have not enough expirience with OSGI to answer >>>>>> >>>>> this.. Maybe >>>>> >>>>>> the spring dynamic modules docs can bring in some lights.. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sorry, >>>>>> Norman >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 2010/3/22 Martin Reisenhofer <[email protected]>: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear Norman, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I mean is there any Spring-Osgi-Configuration Project to change >>>>>>> configuration of server instances dynamically, without rebundle >>>>>>> configuration. For example, i provide james server as >>>>>>> >>>>> osgi bundle, and i >>>>> >>>>>>> want to start two instances of the server, at first i have >>>>>>> >>>>> to install the >>>>> >>>>>>> james server osgi bundle, the second step is to install a >>>>>>> >>>>> bundle which >>>>> >>>>>>> import the james server osgi bundle and two spring >>>>>>> >>>>> configurations for >>>>> >>>>>>> creating the two instances. I am not sure if this is the >>>>>>> >>>>> right way? >>>>> >>>>>>> Thx >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Martin >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Norman Maurer schrieb: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Martin, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I don't understand this question "Do you know a >>>>>>>> >>>>> extension project, >>>>> >>>>>>>> to configure spring supported server instances without install >>>>>>>> bundles with configuration ?" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Could you rephrase it and give some more details.. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thx, >>>>>>>> Norman >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2010/3/22 Martin Reisenhofer <[email protected]>: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dear Norman, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I started with the osgi project now. The reason i will >>>>>>>>> >>>>> use james in osgi >>>>> >>>>>>>>> environment, is to build up an environment with more >>>>>>>>> >>>>> different servers >>>>> >>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>> easy to configure. For example: use apacheds + james in >>>>>>>>> >>>>> one application >>>>> >>>>>>>>> server. >>>>>>>>> You have to build an feature or other bundle with the >>>>>>>>> >>>>> configuration for >>>>> >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> servers. That is nothing i call fast and easy. Do you >>>>>>>>> >>>>> know a extension >>>>> >>>>>>>>> project, to configure spring supported server instances >>>>>>>>> >>>>> without install >>>>> >>>>>>>>> bundles with configuration. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thx, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> martin >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Norman Maurer schrieb: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Martin, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> just to follow up on this. Have you started to work on >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> this already ? >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If so, is there some code already so I could have a >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> look ? I would be >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> really interested in see your progress .. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thx, >>>>>>>>>> Norman >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 2010/3/1 Norman Maurer <[email protected]>: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Martin, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I think the important think is to actual do stuff ;) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> So if you feel >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> more comfortable with spring-dm just go ahead, If >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> someone feels that >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> blueprint is the way to go later, he could just >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> contribute a patch.. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Bye, >>>>>>>>>>> Norman >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 2010/2/28 Martin Reisenhofer <[email protected]>: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> It is so hard today there are so many >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> standards/libraries for the same >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> thing >>>>>>>>>>>> ( see about java logging) , everything has advantages >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> was the other >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>> and vice versa. You are right, the ideal way is it to >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> implement james >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> osgi >>>>>>>>>>>> support based on blueprint because it is a standard, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> but the ideal way >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>> not ever the way which was gone ( the old example VHS >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> and VIDEO2000 ). >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> At >>>>>>>>>>>> now i am not familiar with blueprint, but i don't >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> want ignore this >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>>>>>> standard, i try to do my best to find a solution. I >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> will you inform >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> about my >>>>>>>>>>>> steps of implementing. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Martin >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Am 27.02.2010 21:42, schrieb David Jencks: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 27, 2010, at 12:02 PM, Martin Reisenhofer wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear David, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> blueprint is similar to spring-dm, and also >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> supported by the >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> spring-dm >>>>>>>>>>>>>> server. But spring configuration for now has more >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> features than >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> blueprint. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why do you prefer blueprint instead of spring-dm? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Blueprint is a standard and gives you a choice of >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> platfoms to run on, >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> such >>>>>>>>>>>>> as apache aries. I'm not familiar with the features >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> in spring-dm >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>>> missing from blueprint: if they aren't too important >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> for james, I >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>>>>> using the standard would be worthwhile. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> From another point of view, my understanding is that Spring >>>>>>>>>>>>> positioned >>>>>>>>>>>>> blueprint as the better, standardized version of >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> spring-dm. If it >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't, >>>>>>>>>>>>> better to find out now and start trying to fix the >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> blueprint spec. >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> thanks >>>>>>>>>>>>> david jencks >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> thanks >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Martin >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I watched out now the blueprint. The first i see, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am also agree that xbean-bluepring is great, but the are >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> David Jencks wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I still think that if you are going to go to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> work of making >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> james >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> run well under osgi then it is worth the small >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> additional work of >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> using >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blueprint instead of spring-dm so as to not be tied to a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proprietary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> api. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> got activemq running under xbean-blueprint and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> it basically >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consisted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> removing some unneeded use of obsolete spring >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> lifecycle interfaces >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few classes and making sure the spring-isms needed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> for startup in >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spring >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were in a few classes not needed in blueprint. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> Translating a plan >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spring to blueprint is pretty easy, there are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> basically just a few >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> element >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> name changes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think xbean-blueprint is great but I know not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> everyone agrees and >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is certainly experimental at this point. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thanks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> david jencks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 27, 2010, at 10:33 AM, Norman Maurer wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi David, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we are talkin about spring-dm (the modules) not the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spring-dm-server. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just think using spring-dm is the easiest way >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> cause we already >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> use >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spring for DI. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bye, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Norman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2010/2/27 David Jencks <[email protected]>: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd suggest using blueprint rather than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> spring-dm as it is a >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> standard. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you want to poke into experimental territory >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> you could try >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> xbean-blueprint which, although it currently >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> only works with >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aries' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blueprint implementation lets you use a schema >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> adapted to the >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beans >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> configuration. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thanks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> david jencks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 27, 2010, at 9:21 AM, Martin Reisenhofer wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Norman, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the answer, i have cycles to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> integrate james with >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spring-dm, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after i finished i publish the sources. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best Regards >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Martin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Norman Maurer wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Martin, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we using spring as container in current trunk. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> (development >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would love to see some osgi deployment too >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> (using spring-dm) >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noone had the cycles yet to implement it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> Contributions are >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> welcome >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course :) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bye, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Norman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2010/2/27 Martin Reisenhofer <[email protected]>: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear James development Team, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there are plans to makes james based on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> spring and osgi in >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> future? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> 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>>>>>>> Unterrohr 10 >>>>>>> 8294 Rohr bei Hartberg >>>>>>> Austria >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tel +43 (0) 664 101 44 65 >>>>>>> Mail [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Martin Reisenhofer >>>>> Unterrohr 10 >>>>> 8294 Rohr bei Hartberg >>>>> Austria >>>>> >>>>> Tel +43 (0) 664 101 44 65 >>>>> Mail [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] >>>> >>>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] >>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> 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