Re: [service-orientated-architecture] Bray Prefers it Web-Style

[Eric Newcomer]

Hi Stefan,

 

I would agree that a large part of the problem seems to be misunderstanding. 

 

One thing that gets me mad is when REST proponents take a kind of purist view, as if to say that REST is the right solution to every problem (which I don't think it is) and anyone who doesn't think that (such as myself perhaps) just doesn't understand something. 

 

The only response to something like that is to say that no, you don't understand something.  So we end up in a less than fruitful gainsaying.

 

Regarding the term "architecture" I think you are also right that people on this list are using it in a different sense than you and Mark when you refer to REST.  There's a very explicit definition of software architecture in Roy Fielding's thesis (where REST is defined) which is worth reading.  In fact the entire thesis is worthwhile reading since REST indeed is a very interesting paradigm (way of thinking) and architecture (way of putting together software artifacts into a system).

 

For SOA though I would suggest that the term "architecture" represents more than the logical or business view.  I think it also encompasses the formalization of that view into contracts, portions of which are implemented in software interfaces.  I believe the separation of interface from implementation is a very important aspect of modern implementation environments, and that the A in SOA includes it.  However there are many ways to define and use interfaces.  To me this is where the implementation technology choice starts to come into the picture, and why it is often said that "SOA is technology neutral."

 

I also think that REST, although less formalized than WS-*, represents a valid technology choice for an SOA.  I would not suggest, however, that REST is the only choice or always the best choice.  I have to add that to argue otherwise would seem counterproductive to the proponent of any technology.

 

My opinion is that it's best to use the right tool for the right job, and no single tool (or software system architecture, as I understand your reference) is right for every job. 

 

I would also respectfully ask anyone responding to this to refrain from suggesting that I don't understand something ;-)

 

Eric

----- Original Message ----
From: Stefan Tilkov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: service-orientated-architecture@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 6:45:19 PM
Subject: Re: [service-orientated-architecture] Bray Prefers it Web-Style

On Sep 14, 2006, at 8:54 PM, Ron Schmelzer wrote:

> Sun doesn't get SOA.
> They don't get Web Services.
> It has been that case for the past six years.

This may be right, but if you knew Tim Bray (or had followed his
writings) you'd know that he represents himself only.
And I'd say that the XML co-inventor' s opinion shouldn't be dismissed
so easily ...

But anyway, most of the arguments between foks here are, I think,
based on misunderstandings.

Steve, Ron, and even myself sometimes argue that SOA is independent
of REST, WS, or any other technology. When we talk about it this way,
it's the business aspects we're talking about -- organization,
political and economical reasons for deciding whether to expose
something for re-use by others, whether internally or to the outside
world. I think that's a reasonable point of view.

Mark and other REST proponents, myself included, get mad at this
because this is not "architecture" in a computer-science sense. REST
does not equal HTTP -- it plays in the same league as distributed
objects, RPC, or messaging. All are conceptual, not tied to any
particular implementation, so calling REST an implementation option
is wrong from this point of view. A RESTful system is
*architecturally* different from a MOM-based one.

Both are "architecture" , but only if you define the term two
different ways.

Stefan
--
Stefan Tilkov, http://www.innoq. com/blog/ st/

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