On 15/12/06, Paul Downey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > On 13 Dec 2006, at 09:35, Steve Jones wrote: > > [snip] > > Which is also the same as lobbing a message on a queue. I was talking > > more about using WS for request/response, DDI or the other perfectly > > allowable things you can do with WS-*. And of course with WSDL 2.0 > > you can now do callbacks. > Would you care to elaborate exactly what it is that WSDL 2.0 provides > over WSDL 1.1 that enables "callbacks"?
http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/WD-wsdl20-patterns-20031110/#asynch-out-in Basically you can now specify an async message exchange in the WSDL. > > When do you think WSDL 2.0 is going to have an impact on developers? Given that JAX-WS is in JavaSE 6 and JavaEE 5 and supports WSDL 2.0 then I'd say pretty much now. > > [snip] > > Which is why I say the argument is pointless, the key bit (as ever) is > > in the conceptual architecture and design, REST v WS-* is just a pipes > > and hammers implementation issue. > I'm happy for you to think that way if helps you move from WS-* back to > The Web, but it's more than an implementation issue. Let's take this > email thread: in a year's time I might cite you again and either copy > the text and send it inside another ephemeral message (WS-*) > or point you at the stable URI for the archive (REST). The later IS NOT REST as used for computer->computer communications. You are talking about how to serve a web page up into a browser. I've done that, done it lots of times, and never ONCE in all that time did I build the system using "REST" principles. > > [snip] > > Which for someone such as yourself is great, do remember that the > > majority of IT people out there get the screaming heebie jeebies when > > they see XML, they NEED the nice IDE. Its a very sad fact about IT > > but I'm 100% certain that the average technical level of developers is > > not as high now as it was 10 years ago (probably higher than 5 years > > ago but that is because in the .com boom people who could spell HTML > > three times in five were given a job). > Sadly I have to agree, and in my day job I spend a lot of time targeting > developers who only feel comfortable when inside Visual Studio or > Eclipse > and calling objects others have conjured up for them. However their > experiences of WS-* still aren't good. Expectations are still that of > RPC, > but the hash reality is *exceptionally-poor* interoperability. I'd say its more medium than exceptionally poor these days, doing RMI/COM bridging was poor and the first CORBA interop attemps were exceptionally poor. I built my first commerciall Java/MS web facing WS implementation in 2001, it wasn't too bad and the ones these days are better. > > The good news is I think that's all changing. Having just lived > through an era > of "buy not build" and powerpoint-crazed "solutions designers" I'm > now meeting > more and more people who pride themselves on being consummate developers > and encountering companies desperately seeking them out. Such people > only > have to see a Web based service once to immediately GET it. The developers will save us? Its pretty much people being "clever" with technology that got us into this mess in the first place. > > Paul > -- > http://blog.whatfettle.com > >
