I think that Steve has changed the topic a bit. There is no point to compare 
"Time to market for a new web page"  to the  "time to market for a nuclear 
powerstation"; each of them have their own baselines.

If one compares a solution flexibility for "T2M" attribute, the comparison goes 
against the same entity but for different solution.

However, I agree that fixing problem in isolation is not the right way of doing 
this work.

- Michael




________________________________
From: Steve Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 11:11:19 AM
Subject: Re: [service-orientated-architecture] Re: Rhody tells you how to sell 
SOA


Now how many companies actually have an ability to measure the Time to
Market in a consistent and quantifiable way?  Time to market for a new
web page is one thing, time to market for a nuclear powerstation is
another.  How to compare "flexibility" in these two cases?

This is why I advise clients to start measuring things first before
getting into a transformation programme, its amazing how often it
turns out that the problem wasn't where they thought it was.  In the
same way as people spend months optimising a query to go from 100 ms
to 20ms and ignore the 5 seconds of latency its pointless optimising
bits that don't have significant impacts.

So I agree that in theory its simple, but in practice the data isn't
normally there.

Steve

2008/10/27 Michael Poulin <[EMAIL PROTECTED] com>:
> "flexibility" has following metrics:
> 1) how quickly a change may be adopted in the business solution
> (time-to-market) -T2M
> 2) how costly to adopt a change in the business solution (investments) - INV
> 3) cost of integrating the change into existing business solution landscape
> (impact) -IMP
>
>      max ('flexiblity' ) = min {\xAD\xF4(T2M+INV+IMP) }
>
>
> ROI is out of this picture because it belongs to another category than
> 'flexibility'
>
> What the ambiguity left?
>
> - Michael
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: htshozawa <[EMAIL PROTECTED] com>
> To: service-orientated- architecture@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:53:24 PM
> Subject: [service-orientated -architecture] Re: Rhody tells you how to sell
> SOA
>
> Agreed. Relational database is much easier to learn and use then
> the "other" databases. It's possible compare the cost advantage of
> using a relational database.
> In a similar manner, it's possible to calculate the cost advantage of
> using SOA concepts and tools. I think we're having problems because
> of a strong focus on technology and on trying to compare using
> ambiguous term like "flexibility" , which is very hard to quantify.
>
> H.Ozawa
>
> --- In service-orientated- architecture@ yahoogroups. com, "Steve Jones"
> <jones.steveg@ ...> wrote:
>>
>> I agree with some of the data here but I'm still confused as to why
>> SOA always has to be net-additional spend over a 2-3 year period.
>>
>> My personal experience has been that if you focus on the right
>> business areas and don't focus on the technology (except as a
>> necessary evil) then you can consistently deliver net benefits
> inside
>> a 24 month period.
>>
>> Whenever IT says "we need $20m to fix the problems" I always wonder
>> why the other $200m they have is being spent on creating the
> problems.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> 2008/10/26 Gervas Douglas <gervas.douglas@ ...>:
>> > <<As you can imagine, I spend a lot of time speaking to people
> about
>> > service-oriented architecture (and its variants for
> infrastructure and
>> > enterprise) and about how best to create a true implementation
> (or at least,
>> > an effective one). There is a great deal of detail in creating
> such an
>> > artifact - design yes, but also implementation, operational
> details,
>> > governance, and a myriad of other tasks that can easily take up a
> chief
>> > architect's entire day. These tasks are all vital to the actual
> creation of
>> > the architecture, but for all that they may seem the fundamental
> first steps
>> > in evolving the IT shop, and yet there are even more necessary
> first steps -
>> > selling the concept in the first place.
>> >
>> > SOA in many ways reminds me of relational database technology. At
> its first
>> > inception, the concept of an RDBMS must have had a hard sell.
> Sure it made
>> > perfect sense to arrange the data and ensure that the
> relationships between
>> > the data were enforced, but what was the business case that
> enabled the
>> > purchase of this new and expensive technology? You certainly
> couldn't say
>> > that by introducing a relation database, you were going to make
> the company
>> > $20 million a year annually. So the RDBMS slowly made its way
> into the IT
>> > arsenal a little at a time, with justifications added in a
> variety of ways.
>> >
>> > SOA is even more complex - it affects almost every aspect of the
> enterprise
>> > if done to the fullest, and yet the basic premise is very similar
> to the
>> > RDBMS - it's a better way to work. I imagine the discovery of the
> wheel
>> > engendered similar thought - "Duh, why didn't I think of that,
> it's so
>> > simple." And yet there's a mountain of legacy code, 50 years
> worth in some
>> > cases, that prevents a simple rip and replace. Not to mention the
> cost
>> > problem.
>> >
>> > But the real challenge in SOA is finding the ROI in IT. The
> logical
>> > statement that spending $20 million (I'm just picking a big
> number here, not
>> > stating that an SOA conversion should cost that) on conversion
> will in the
>> > future make all IT projects easier to implement and thus less
> costly by some
>> > factor is in most cases not a sufficient justification. The idea
> of tacking
>> > it on to some in-flight project usually creates howls from the
> business
>> > owner who somehow is being asked to pay much more than the base
> project
>> > should cost.
>> >
>> > Really, there has to be another way. And there is - making the
> business a
>> > partner. SOA is something that enables changes to how the IT
> organization
>> > reacts to business requirements and new functionality requests,
> making them
>> > easier to accomplish, and therefore both faster and cheaper.
> Building a case
>> > with the business that these changes are important and justify
> slightly hire
>> > costs for the first few projects is helpful. Finding a large scale
>> > transformation project is even better.
>> >
>> > In a large scale transformation, many IT systems are going to be
> touched,
>> > re-aligned, or replaced. New data models will come into being,
> and new
>> > services will be needed. This is not to say that it's
> justification for
>> > throwing the kitchen sink into the IT budget during a
> transformation, but a
>> > case can easily be made based on the integration needs that are
> without a
>> > doubt going to be part of the program. Instead of some cost
> savings in the
>> > future, by going with SOA in a transformation, the cost savings
> can be
>> > realized within the program.
>> >
>> > This isn't what the IT world wants to hear - there's a strong
> push from
>> > vendors and platform providers to go SOA - but it is the reality
> of software
>> > systems. The concept of a system that constantly requires renewal
> is foreign
>> > for some reason to financial folks, even though there are
> countless examples
>> > of the concept in the world. Software has a life cycle, and if
> you don't
>> > feed your investment, it dies. Nevertheless, in order to move to
> an SOA
>> > environment, we need to recognize the need to involve the
> business side of
>> > the organization in our activities and make a case in a language
> they
>> > understand in order to be successful.> >
>> >
>> > You can read this at: http://soa.sys- con.com/node/ 721654
>> >
>> > Gervas
>> >
>>
>
>
> 
    


      

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