> thanks for your thoughts.
> I must admit I approached shoes totally from the "user experience"
> point of view.
>
> To be successful applications written in "ruby on shoes" need to
> behave exactly as other programs do on each of the 3 OSes covered by
> shoes. I don't care if .shy really is an archive or not.

This is what brought me to shoes ... the ability to create a GUI that
can run cross-platform and be installed (on the 3 major OSeS) just
like any other native program.

So I tend to agree that any other install work-flow (which is foreign
to non-computer people) will be a hindrance to uptake/usability.

I'm not saying remove the functionality, just hide it in such a way
such that my mother in law doesn't get confused when she installs my
program.

Etienne


> Lets just assume the files is intact and try to run it without popping
> up additional windows. Just as every other program does.
>
> I see a huge similarity to what http://www.rhomobile.com develops for
> smart phones right now:
>
> ...Rhodes lets you quickly build mobile interfaces....It is similar in
> concept to MVC frameworks such as Rails, Merb and Camping but much
> lighter weight (and hence executable on a mobile device) than any of
> these. Along the way of course, we had to implement Ruby for these
> device operating systems (iPhone, Windows Mobile, RIM and Symbian)....
>
> So Rhodes will allow us to program an app in ruby, and then run it on
> smart phones like the iPhone, and also on the Windows Mobile, RIM and
> Symbian platform, without having to write platform specific code at
> all.
>
> Thats exactly what shoes does for PCs and the OSes Linux, Windows and Mac OS.
>
> Great times. I only need to learn ruby anymore to cover it all.
>
> So I am looking for shoes to behave a bit more like every other
> program does. And a bit less "creative". Which by the way I really
> like. Its refreshing. But I am a coder and get things working the
> average guy does not.
>
> So I wonder if _why could point out what direction shoes development goes to?
>
> Thanks,
> Jan
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 6:43 PM, Hugh Sasse <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 5 Feb 2009, Jan Martin wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I was irritated by the annoying "Verifying Archive" window that always
>>> opens when I try to run a .shy file on Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron Linux.
>>
>> It's not reassuring that it checks?  Should it cache the checksum and
>> modification times of the archive so it knows it has checked already?
>> Would such a cache be an invasion of privacy in some form?
>>
>> What is your expectation about this?  I'm not saying you are wrong,
>> because challenges to current practice are how things improve.  Anyway,
>> it's not me designing this stuff, so I can't have any strong influence
>> on what happens, but if I can help make the debate more specific, that
>> may be useful.
>>
>>>
>>> So I created a "runshoes.sh" file with these 2 lines:
>>>
>>> #!/bin/sh
>>> /home/me/Programs/shoes2.run --nox11 $1
>>>
>>> After changing the "Open With" in the "Preferences" of the .shy file,
>>> all .shy files do now open directly without the annoying "Verifying
>>> Archive" window.
>>>
>>> I wonder if the "--nox11" parameter could be made a default?
>>
>> Alternatively, maybe it could only pop up a window if there is a
>> problem.  "About Face" by Alan Cooper, and presumably About Face 2.0
>> which I've not read, argues that software should not trouble users
>> with details they frankly don't care about.  [See also, "My Pink
>> Half of the Drainpipe" by The Bonzo Dog Doo Dah Band, for a similar
>> take on this in a more general context :-).]  His take on things
>> involves a lot more effort by the programmer, and may conflict with
>> advice about dying as soon as possible when there is a problem so
>> that less damage is done by having an idiot machine trying to figure
>> out what is wrong, and "correcting" it mindlessly.
>>
>>>
>>> Also I noticed that most shoes apps at the shoebox end in .rb
>>>
>>> This probably is because right now shoes is used by programmers only,
>>> who already have ruby installed. However it stops further success of
>>> shoes, which would be a pity.
>>
>> It has disadvantages, but it is so that editors syntax highlight
>> correctly, for one thing.  I think the extension .shu could be used
>> for the ruby programs that are shoes specific and not archives
>> without causing too much trouble, given fixes to editor
>> configuration files to detect this.
>>
>>>
>>> I would like shoes to run OS independent ruby "programs". Which
>>
>> Some of the inheritance aspects may prevent this, but I'm not entirely
>> sure, hence all the difficulties of getting gems to work.
>>
>>> unfortunately right now is not what we have because executing .shy
>>> file is totally different from handling all other executables. (Cannot
>>
>> But .shy is meant as an archive, isn't it?  A better parallel is
>> executing a .zip file.  Some programs do that, eg, Alice
>> http://www.alice.org/
>> though Alice uses the extension .a2w for that.
>>
>>> talk about Windows, cause I do not have Windows installed anymore.)
>>>
>>> Does the development go into a direction that is more common, means
>>> "What people already know"?
>>
>> I'm not sure what you mean by that sentence.  Do you mean, "is that already
>> planned?"?  How would "what people already know" apply here, given the
>> comments about archives above (if you think those comments are valid)?
>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Jan
>>>
>>        Hugh
>>
>

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