I say we find another subject to flog to death!! Nothing is going to change Bernie's mindset, so let's move on to better things!!
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Dave Tutelman Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 3:32 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ShopTalk: What is it worth? OK, let's see if I understand what both [all?] of you are saying... First of all, the IRS (the technical) distinction: * The IRS says you have to declare yourself as a business if you want business treatment. (Then you have to justify it by being profitable over 5 years or take hobbyist treatment -- retroactively?) * If you make a profit, then hobbyist and business have to behave the same -- that is, both have to pay taxes. * If you have a net loss for the year, then the business gets to deduct the loss, while the hobbyist cannot. The hobbyist can use revenue to defray cost (thus not paying taxes on the revenue) but cannot deduct the costs. Did I get that right? OK, assuming I did: * A few professionals believe hobbyists are unfairly stealing business from them because they don't pay taxes. * But from the above rules, they are also stealing from the government (i.e.- REALLY stealing, as in criminal behavior) if they made a profit. I'm in somewhat the same boat as Bernie, but probably even less of a "threat". I won't make clubs for most people, just friends and family. (And "friend" does not refer to just anybody I meet on a golf course. I don't use clubmaking to make new friends.) Family usually gets the clubs as a gift. Friends are charged just enough over cost to help me subsidize my hobby. No, I never come near the "profit" column over the course of any year. And all those acquaintances not close enough friends for me to spend time building them clubs? I know a few pretty good to very competent professional clubmakers in the area, and send them there. But most of them don't go. :-( They just keep playing the same OEM clubs, which limit their games. Cheers! DaveT PS - Just realized that in two more years, my old employer Lucent Technologies officially becomes a hobby. :-D
