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Harry when i was playing well i set my irons as follows, SW =
66* AW = 65* PW = 64* 9I =
63* 6I thru 8I= 61* thru 63* 4 & 5 I = 59
& 60*. I found that on the shorter irons I tended to try
and help them body wise vs the long iron using a sweeping
motion. When I was either building a set for a
customer or just doing a L&L check I checked each & every
club.
Just make sure that when bending you get as far down on the hosel
as you can because if you don't you had better have a Heli-Arch
welders phone number real handy.
RK
Manufacturer's of World Class Golf Club Repair
Equipment
-------Original
Message-------
Date: Saturday,
January 18, 2003 3:41:14 PM
Subject: RE:
ShopTalk: Lie Angle Progression
Hi Arnie and
Charlie
Our third year in business we broke
the bank and bought a Mitchell Loft and Lie machine with putter
attachment.
I know the standard progression for
lie and we hand select and dial in based on; component wts, cpm,
swt., NBP, etc. > all the good stuff.
We actually bend loft and lie of
iron and wedge heads prior to cutting the shafts to final length.
Found to be easier and little more accurate.
When I check lie for a customer
I ONLY use the 5 iron, and ASSUME a lie progression
of 1 degree change for each 1/2 inch length change.
My question is a little
different. Sorry for not making myself clear. I suspect some
clubmakers use 2 or 3 clubs for checking lie angles.
Lets say the 2 clubs are a 4 iron
and an 8 iron, and standard lie is 59 and 63 respectively for standard
length steel.
From the lie board its determined
the guy/gal needs 60 to 63 (delta 3 degrees) over the 5 clubs =
0.75 degree lie progression.
Could this be normal, or do you
almost always get 1 deg / 0.5 inch, when using more than 1 club for lie
checking a customer?
Then I look at a Golfweek column
dated Sept. 2000 titled "What's in Tiger's Bag". There is what
they stated for his Titleist clubs:
Their length is graduated down in
half-inch increments from a 39" 2 iron. 2I = 21 degrees loft, 60 degree
lie (about 1 degree upright),
Irons:
2I = 21.60 / 3I = 24.61 / 4I = 27.62
/ 5I = 30.63 / 6I = 33.63 1/2 / 7I =
37.64 / 8I = 41.64 / 9I = 45.65 / PW
= 50.65
Wedges: SW = Vokey 258.08 bent
to 256.06 (06 denotes bounce) / LW = Vokey 260.06
The article didn't mention if same length as 9I?
From Tiger's club data, the lie
angle only changes 1 degree (and not 2 degrees) from his 5 iron to his 7
iron = 0.5 degree lie progression.
Now to get back to my first
question. Why does Tiger need only 1 degree lie change from 5I to
7I? I suspect a lot of other golfers may not
be based on the 1 degree per change
in length per 0.5 inches. Checking only a 5 iron a clubmaker would
never find this out, and assume
all to be fine. For those
clubmakers who have checked multiple clubs on a lie board, does 1 DEGREE
PER 0.5 INCH HOLD UP IN PRACTICE?
This was the basic question I wanted
answered. Not too concerned about Joe Average, they can't
tell a couple of degrees anyway.
Arnie, Charlie, and
others, what have you found with the more elite (around scratch or
better) type of golfer?
I build all wedges the same length
as the 9 iron. Prefer to buy iron heads with 8 iron loft
at 40 deg. (getting harder to find with no cheated
lofts).
Just finishing a set of Dynacraft
PC3 irons for a guy. First time using this head and probably my
last. Book says 431 stainless steel but these suckers where the hardest yet to
bend. Then I bent his Dynacraft Pro Wedges (also 431) and went way
too far on the first bend (soft as
butter). PC3's needed a 10# sledge hammer and the Pro Wedges
needed a 0.5# tack hammer for the hosel bending bar. No more PC3's
for me.
The
PC3's and Pro Wedge's with ProSoft Inserts will be delivered on
Monday. Without grips all swingweights within 0.2
points, all shafts aligned, loft and lie within 1/4 degree, - 1 cpm off
on frequency for only one club, otherwise on
a perfect frequency slope. Arnie, is that
close enough to be considered "assembled with nothing less than
perfect craftmanship"?
Thank You and Cha-Ching (the
sound of money as you deposit it in the cash box)!
Thanks
HarryS
When I've looked at component catalogue's
some vary by 58 - 63 (5 deg) or 57 - 64 (7 deg) from the 2 Iron
through to PW.
For the bulk of the players you fit 3 Iron to
PW
Lie angle of 2 iron 57*, 3 iron
58*, 4 iron 59*, 5 iron 60* as you can see each iron going up in iron
number adds one degree of lie angle. TILL YOU GET TO 64* 9 iron and
all wedges are the same lie angle and length as the 9 iron. UNLESS YOU
BUILD THE WEDGES PROGRESSIVELY SHORTER. The key is that for each
half inch in length reduction the lie angle increases by one
degree. Keep this in mind when you lengthen or shorten clubs
from "standard length" of 37.5" steel shafted 5 iron and 38" graphite
shafted 5 iron. YOU MUST HAVE A LOFT/LIE MACHINE! And when clubs
are lengthened or shortened you will have to adjust the lie for the
golfer. No, you can't just adjust the length because of the asterisk
on the spec. chart for the heads that says *+/- 1 degree (note small
print). Trust no catalog -- invest in loft/lie machine. Don't waste
your money on a machine to measure 'cause you still need a loft/lie
machine to bend and the loft/lie machine also measures.
Check
head weight progression, freq. match shafts, spline shafts, weigh
grips, weigh shafts, calculate and check swing weights, install
prosoft inserts if desired, use the same length of grip tape, polish
the ferrules, assemble with nothing less than perfect craftsmanship,
and adjust loft and lie.
Next customer please. Hey you, wait
your turn! Clubs will be ready tomorrow. Will that be cash, check or
charge? THANK YOU!
Arnie
Hi Arnie
Based on each
iron getting progressively shorter or longer by 1/2 inch, does this
equate to 1 degree lie angle increments?
When I've
looked at component catalogue's some vary by 58 - 63 (5 deg) or 57 -
64 (7 deg) from the 2 Iron through
to PW.
For the bulk of
the players you fit 3 Iron to PW, what is the typical lie ange
change over the 8 clubs?
Thanks
HarryS
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