Hey, Tedd How about this 2 - 3 & 4 irons mage from Forging stock, the 5 - 6 & 7 irons made as Investment Castings and the 8 - 9 & PW irons made from Ti. The 4140 / 4340 Forging stock weights in at somewheres very close to .29 Pounds per Cubic Inch The IC should weight in at around .254 Pounds per c/i and the TI weights in at .17 PPCI. or how about Be for the 8 - 9 7 PW.
RK ----- Original Message ----- From: "Childers, Tedd A" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 12:18 PM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RE: ShopTalk: Re: [SpinetalkersForum] Single length irons : Alan, : : The only problem I see with a single length complete set is that the length : of the clubs would have to be closer to 38-40" to accommodate a 240g head : weight (as you suggest below), IF you want to obtain a somewhat traditional : swingweight (C8-D2 range). At that length, you are starting to get into the : range where most people seem to struggle with their traditional sets. The : question is, do they struggle with traditional long irons because of the : length, the lower loft, the smaller head size, or a combination of these. : The success of hybrids seems to indicate that the length factor can be at : least partially offset by larger, more forgiving hybrid head designs. In : reality, I believe that it is the combination of these three factors that : make long irons hard to hit well. A single length concept can address two : of these factors easily (length and head size/forgiveness) as long as the : heads are designed properly. If this concept takes off, I can foresee that : future sets could include hybrid type heads for the lower lofted irons, : cavity back designs for the mid-irons, and blades for the highest lofted : clubs, all built to the same weight and lie angle to allow single length : clubs. Whether or not the complete set, including "woods" could be included : at a single length remains to be seen. At worst, I think it is easily : achievable to only have 2 lengths of clubs, 1 for irons and 1 for woods. : : Tedd : : -----Original Message----- : From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Alan Brooks : Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 11:19 AM : To: [email protected] : Subject: RE: ShopTalk: Re: [SpinetalkersForum] Single length irons : : : Hi Tedd, : : Dave's right about Max's program, the input variables are head speed, head : mass, and loft (along with some global parameters such as coefficient of : restitution, spin coefficient, etc.). Club length is not an input. After : my last post I played around with lower loft values and got the same sort : of numbers and distances that Dave did for the constant length clubs. : : Why is it that you think we need to apply the concept separately for woods : and irons? I have had this same conversation on Wishon's forum over MOI : matching. If we are trying to make a 'set' of clubs easier to get : repeatable results from, shouldn't they all be matched? I suspect if we : play around with the numbers a bit we can design a constant length set of : clubs that will get 200-yards on one end and 100-yards on the other. A lot : of the guys I play with would be thrilled if they could get 200-yards down : the middle consistently. I would design the set with hybrids for the low : lofted irons (to take advantage of the forgiveness properties of hollow : heads) progressing to a cavity back for the high lofted irons. They would : be comparable to a progressive length set from PW to 5-wood, which is what : most high handicappers should be playing with anyway. Of course, then they : might become mid-handicappers and want more Pro-like clubs. This could be : a godsend for the occasional golfer. : : I just went back into Max's program and ran 240-g head weight at 85-mph and : got 202-yards for an 18* loft and 98-yards for 50* loft. I believe there : is a lot of room for tweaking here. : : Regards, : : Alan Brooks : : : : At 08:21 AM 1/5/2005 -0500, you wrote: : >Alan, : > : >I think that the concept for single length would apply separately for irons : >and woods. Can you re-run the numbers using say a 42" club length for : woods : >with a 100 MPH swingspeed (I guess head weight would be around 220 grams). : >I think the target weight is closer to 266 grams for these heads, with the : >length at 36.6-37.5", depending on the golfer and the shaft used. Can : Max's : >program predict how much difference in swingspeed and/or distance one would : >get between a 38" club with a 253g head and a 37" club with a 266g head, : >assuming the same loft? : > : >Tedd : > : >-----Original Message----- : >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Alan Brooks : >Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 7:46 PM : >To: [email protected] : >Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Re: [SpinetalkersForum] Single length irons : > : > : >Since it was easy to do I just ran Max Dupilka's Trajectory program for an : >80-mph, 250-g club head at various lofts. The distances I got are as : >follows: : > : >Loft Distance (yards) : >12 175 : >24 178 : >36 138 : >48 100 : > : >Reasonable numbers for lofts above 24*. It looks like it would take : >lighter heads (hence higher club head velocities) to get the distance back : >up with woods. The trajectory for the the 24*, 36*, and 48* lofts were : >comparably high. The 12* trajectory was about half the height. I did not : >play with the other parameters in Max's software (such as spin) that will : >influence true results. : > : >Interesting, though. : > : >Alan Brooks : > : > : > : > : >At 04:37 PM 1/4/2005 -0500, you wrote: : > >>Dave T. has done the math : > >>comparing single length iron distances vs. traditional irons, and there : > >>really is a minimal affect on distance by going to single length (at say : > >>37"). : > > : > >Sometime, I'll have to re-do it with a different set of assumptions. The : > >graph in the Club Design Notes assumes you couldn't get a set with : > >constant head weight. I assumed a skilled golfer that could still hit the : > >ball with wildly different swingweights, and who in fact got some : clubhead : > >speed advantage with the lighter clubs. (I used data from Cochran & : Stobbs : > >to estimate the speed advantage.) : > > : > >To evaluate the concept that Tim (or David Lake of 1IronGolf) is pushing, : > >I'd re-do the simulations for constant head weight and constant speed. I : > >don't know if it would make single-length look better or worse. Longer : > >irons would have lower clubhead speed but higher mass; don't know if the : > >resulting momentum and energy transferred comes out higher or lower. Just : > >gotta go ahead and crank through the numbers. : > > : > >Very interesting, though! : > >DaveT : > > : > > : > >-- : > >No virus found in this outgoing message. : > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. : > >Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.8 - Release Date: 1/3/05 : > > : :
