Hi Maxim,

So as I understand it now, you are running a big supercell with gamma-point.
This cell is generated from a converged unit cell (or from a smaller
supercell), for which the sampling is converged, and the atomic positions
are also optimized down to 0.04 eV/Ang. Is that right?

Could you provide more detail on the procedure? As an old saying goes, "the
devil lives in the details" :)

Anyway, for very large systems (especially if they are metallic),
convergence can be very difficult, indeed. So, a Mixing weight of 0.01 could
still be too high - you might need to go down to 1e-3 or even lower, for the
beginning of the convergence loop. Also, one thing that helped me when I
started running really big systems was to increase the number of pulay steps
for the mixing.

Cheers,

Marcos

On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 4:55 PM, Maxim Peskov <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hej  Henrik,
>
> the main problem here, as I perceive it, is the huge forces we are getting
>  at the beginning for some of the atoms, when we should expect a fine scf
> converged density matrix from a previous geometry step that got be
> approximated to a different kpoint set, of couse, however it should
> definitely be better that a random initialization of bands we are getting
> when starting from scratch. Here it is worse, in fact.
> Have look at the output file where I allowed SCF to proceed and watch how
> energy of the systems bounces at the first fews steps. For a bigger systems
> this means going off the limits and the lack of convergence - in the
> consequence.
> (complete output in the attachment)
>
> --Max
>
> ------
> k-point displ. along 1 input, could be: 0.00 0.50
> k-point displ. along 2 input, could be: 0.00 0.50
> k-point displ. along 3 input, could be: 0.00 0.50
> Kpoints in: 24 . Kpoints trimmed: 23
>
> siesta: k-grid: Number of k-points = 23
> siesta: k-grid: Cutoff (effective) = 9.620 Ang
> siesta: k-grid: Supercell and displacements
> siesta: k-grid: 4 0 0 0.000
> siesta: k-grid: 0 2 0 0.000
> siesta: k-grid: 0 0 4 0.000
> Naive supercell factors: 4 2 4
>
> superc: Internal auxiliary supercell: 4 x 2 x 4 = 32
> superc: Number of atoms, orbitals, and projectors: 896 11648 14336
>
> * Maximum dynamic memory allocated = 3 MB
>
> siesta:
> ==============================
> Begin CG move = 0
> ==============================
>
> superc: Internal auxiliary supercell: 4 x 2 x 4 = 32
> superc: Number of atoms, orbitals, and projectors: 896 11648 14336
>
> outcell: Unit cell vectors (Ang):
> 5.440000 0.000000 0.000000
> 0.000000 13.580000 0.000000
> 0.000000 0.000000 4.810000
>
> outcell: Cell vector modules (Ang) : 5.440000 13.580000 4.810000
> outcell: Cell angles (23,13,12) (deg): 90.0000 90.0000 90.0000
> outcell: Cell volume (Ang**3) : 355.3397
> New_DM. Step: 1
> Initializing Density Matrix...
>
> iodm: Reading Density Matrix from files
> Read DM has different structure. Fixing...
>
> InitMesh: MESH = 54 x 144 x 48 = 373248
> InitMesh: Mesh cutoff (required, used) = 250.000 272.327 Ry
>
> * Maximum dynamic memory allocated = 63 MB
>
> stepf: Fermi-Dirac step function
>
> siesta: Program's energy decomposition (eV):
> siesta: Ebs = -1911.686053
> siesta: Eions = 9474.841514
> siesta: Ena = 1832.919192
> siesta: Ekin = 4294.216968
> siesta: Enl = -625.333921
> siesta: DEna = -109.947618
> siesta: DUscf = 109.266231
> siesta: DUext = 0.000000
> siesta: Exc = -1627.882645
> siesta: eta*DQ = 0.000000
> siesta: Emadel = 0.000000
> siesta: Emeta = 0.000000
> siesta: Emolmec = 0.000000
> siesta: Ekinion = 0.000000
> siesta: Eharris = -6201.785840
> siesta: Etot = -5601.603306
> siesta: FreeEng = -5601.603306
>
> siesta: iscf Eharris(eV) E_KS(eV) FreeEng(eV) dDmax Ef(eV)
> siesta: 1 -6201.7858 -5601.6033 -5601.6033 5.0150 -2.9154
> timer: Routine,Calls,Time,% = IterSCF 1 124.835 91.50
> elaps: Routine,Calls,Wall,% = IterSCF 1 15.650 91.46
> siesta: 2 -7030.2491 -5539.8587 -5539.8587 11.3076 -7.1814
> siesta: 3 -6044.0557 -5572.8033 -5572.8033 2.8268 -3.3773
> siesta: 4 -5956.0974 -5595.5166 -5595.5166 2.7117 -2.2985
> siesta: 5 -5825.4095 -5604.4640 -5604.4640 1.1959 -3.6451
> siesta: 6 -5819.4801 -5637.6924 -5637.6924 0.9876 -4.4630
> siesta: 7 -5818.9743 -5723.0864 -5723.0864 0.5204 -3.2452
> siesta: 8 -5818.2690 -5828.9569 -5828.9569 0.2823 -4.0173
> siesta: 9 -5814.9075 -5799.5175 -5799.5175 0.1043 -5.6074
> siesta: 10 -5814.1989 -5807.7746 -5807.7746 0.0567 -5.3206
> siesta: 11 -5814.1604 -5813.2696 -5813.2696 0.0150 -5.2951
> siesta: 12 -5814.1466 -5813.9381 -5813.9381 0.0064 -5.2495
> siesta: 13 -5814.1455 -5814.4979 -5814.4979 0.0042 -5.2577
> siesta: 14 -5814.1452 -5814.2148 -5814.2148 0.0010 -5.2628
> siesta: 15 -5814.1451 -5814.1600 -5814.1600 0.0005 -5.2654
> siesta: 16 -5814.1451 -5814.1357 -5814.1357 0.0003 -5.2649
> siesta: 17 -5814.1451 -5814.1402 -5814.1402 0.0001 -5.2643
> siesta: 18 -5814.1451 -5814.1432 -5814.1432 0.0001 -5.2643
>
> siesta: E_KS(eV) = -5814.1462
>
> siesta: E_KS - E_eggbox = -5814.1462
>
> siesta: Atomic forces (eV/Ang):
> ----------------------------------------
> Tot 0.000001 0.000001 0.020157
> ----------------------------------------
> Max 1.053845
> Res 0.528280 sqrt( Sum f_i^2 / 3N )
> ----------------------------------------
> Max 1.053845 constrained
>
> Stress-tensor-Voigt (kbar): -62.52 -213.03 -83.88 0.00 -0.00 -0.00
> (Free)E + p*V (eV/cell) -5787.5740
> Target enthalpy (eV/cell) -5814.1462
>
> --------------
>
> 22 октября 2011, 17:52 от Henrik Löfås <[email protected]>:
>
>  Dear Maxim,
>
> Another point, you set
> MaxSCFIterations          0
> I am not sure but I think this means that you just get your DM interpolated
> at the new k-points. If you would let the scf-loop reach convergence for the
> new k-point set I would guess you get more reasonable forces.
>
> Regards
> Henrik
>
> 2011/10/22 Marcos Veríssimo Alves 
> <[email protected]<http://sentmsg?compose&[email protected]>
> >
>
>> Maxim,
>>
>> I believe Chun has a point here, and I beg to differ from what you say.
>>
>> For some materials, it is important to include special k-points, so as to
>> get a correct band structure and (eventually) forces - the most "famous"
>> case would perhaps be graphene, with its K point. Even if your material
>> hasn't such special characteristics, making the k-point mesh denser means
>> that you are sampling the BZ more accurately and thus changing the part of
>> the total energy that corresponds to the electronic band occupations. Just
>> think of a simple numerical integration in 1-D.
>>
>> To say that you have a problem with an increasing k-point mesh density is
>> a bit precipitated, unless you are sure that you have a very converged
>> k-mesh. Chun's e-mail is actually very sensible: you should first relax your
>> structure, and then increase the k-mesh to see its effects on the forces.Not
>> only that, you should also check its effects on the band structure, although
>> in principle this effect should be negligible, if you have performed a
>> convergence study.
>>
>> Marcos
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 6:34 AM, Maxim Peskov 
>> <[email protected]<http://sentmsg?compose&[email protected]>
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the comment, Chun. However, you have missed the point.
>>> I guess it will be better if I rephrase my question: how can one restart
>>> from scf-preconverged density matrix and increased kpoint set? With the
>>> options I used such a restart would mean the forces are going crazy which
>>> clearly indicate a problem. Even more, if I change kpoints it is better to
>>> start from scratch than to use DM. Any ideas?
>>>
>>> --Max
>>>
>>>
>>> 20 октября 2011, 20:04 от 
>>> [email protected]<http://sentmsg?compose&[email protected]>
>>> :
>>> > Hi,
>>> >
>>> > From the first ourput file, I found the following lines:
>>> >
>>> > outcoor: Final (unrelaxed) atomic coordinates (fractional):
>>> >    -0.00005348    0.49985936    0.49676159   1       1  C
>>> > ...
>>> > ...
>>> >
>>> > which means your first run is not converged.
>>> >
>>> > Best,
>>> >
>>> > Chun
>>> >
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

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