Hi,
On 23 August 2017 at 14:32, Ernest Tse <ernest....@pacswitch.com> wrote: > ​Dear All, > > Here is my opinion, > > (1) If the transfer is denied by APNIC, does it mean the IP address will > be wasted on the Internet ? > Yes, if the transfer is denied the address space will remain unused until the next recipient is found and approved. > (2) If there are no need policy applied , can it help the un-routed IP > address utilization % ? > Yes, It will make it simpler to get the IPs from being dormant to an active network that has plans for them. > (3) The recipient request transfer does it mean they have real demend for > IPv4 address ? > Yes, if anyone is ready to pay for space, they have a need behind it. I have seen mentions of speculators many times, but the only demonstrated IPv4 speculation happening, is actually only happening at new membership level at the RIRs. Where people open new LIRs for the sole purpose of transferring later. But from the IPv4 transfers of "old" space, I have never heard of speculators. A large cloud provider or country wide ISP/mobile operator can easily justify any given amount of space anyways, the need based transfer policy only affects smaller networks. > (4) Can this "no need policy" help to re-use/recycle the old IP address > / legacy IP address to the new owner? > Yes, making it simpler and removing a whole layer of doubt when approaching a potential transfer deal. offering parties and receiving parties have so much to arrange internally, now, when you need to explain to your finance director that you need x amount of dollars ear marked to buy new IP space but that the deal will only go through if the RIR approves it due to evaluation of network requirements.... Most finance people and managers do not like to hear about policies, they want to know "when", not "if". That is a simple reality. > (5) Saving a lot of APNIC work load ? HR ? > > Yes, APNIC's staff will be handling this from a pure contractual agreement point of view, no evaluation of technical needs, so a big part of the work put in transfers will be diminished. > Thank you very much ! > > > Best Regards, > > > Ernest Tse > Pacswitch Globe Telecom Ltd. > // Web: http://www.pacswitch.com > // Tel: +852-21570550 <+852%202157%200550> > //Mobile: +852-62536678 <+852%206253%206678> > //Skype: codesixs > Regards, David Hilario > > On Wed, 23/08/2017 15.34, Aftab Siddiqui <aftab.siddi...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Thanks George for the details. > > So this policy is trying to solve the problems which don't exist. > > > On Wed, 23 Aug 2017 at 12:28 George Kuo <geo...@apnic.net> wrote: > >> Hi Aftab, >> >> Thanks for your patience. I now have more information for you. >> >> Total number of IPv4 market transfers that did not get completed in the >> last 12 months is 97. >> >> Below is the breakdown of reasons: >> Fraud: 4 >> Recipient could not demonstrate needs: 1 >> Recipient did not accept transfer: 6 >> Requests corrected as M&A transfer: 23 >> No response from member: 30 >> Member requested to cancel transfer: 33 >> >> As far as administration of these requests is concerned, it's just part >> of hostmasters routines required by the APNIC policy. >> >> >> George >> >> >> On 18/8/17 6:48 pm, George Kuo wrote: >> > Hi Aftab, >> > >> > For 2017, the secretariat has processed 158 market transfers as of 15 >> > August. So, this is roughly about 5 transfer requests a week. >> > On average, it takes about 4-5 responses from APNIC hostmasters to >> > complete a transfer request. We have a procedure to respond to a >> > correspondence within two working days. >> > >> > We are getting the rest of the answers for you. I'll come back to you as >> > soon as I have the information. >> > >> > thanks, >> > >> > George >> > >> > >> > On 18/8/17 3:29 pm, Aftab Siddiqui wrote: >> >> Dear APNIC Sec, >> >> >> >> Can you share some stats: >> >> >> >> - How many transfers request denied in last 12 months? >> >> - How many requests were denied just because of bad documentation? >> >> - How many transfer request you are receiving every week? >> >> - How long does it take to process a transfer request? >> >> - Does it create any administrative burden? >> >> >> >> On Wed, 9 Aug 2017 at 16:14 chku <c...@twnic.net.tw >> >> <mailto:c...@twnic.net.tw>> wrote: >> >> >> >> Dear SIG members >> >> >> >> The proposal "prop-118: No need policy in APNIC region" was >> >> discussed at >> >> APNIC 43 Policy SIG, but did not reach consensus. >> >> >> >> It will be presented at the Open Policy Meeting at APNIC 44 which >> >> will >> >> be held in Taichung, Taiwan on Wednesday and Thursday, 14 & 15 >> >> September >> >> 2017. >> >> >> >> Information about the proposal is available from: >> >> >> >> http://www.apnic.net/policy/proposals/prop-118 >> <https://u5763498.ct.sendgrid.net/wf/click?upn=xF2otKml8FKK0iLyO1O8huUrPPtUbHhO65cb-2BIfOx1yQjk8JFqaVBIhGSNZmoA60U12-2BFRY8sOsUAtEqjBQpgg-3D-3D_UAkvnIPiyHBK93gJxXZbN-2FFqWUVGpvc0TKjBg0wTWpXOU0MXB1M8x3Zyxddwnmd-2B8hit85XVwjEYtN6VprYwtzmyqk8RI14PsxehiD1ElHcOZItpHwsiAEAZiz5jlAB6SJzvn-2BPzJe6KhzNASXbKPnoaTPCiphr18ewFYxpvwI9qJFjFJTXCx8XmNvYGtLZ68jziyiTxhFilOap3vwJChw-3D-3D> >> >> >> >> You are encouraged to express your views on the proposal: >> >> >> >> - Do you support or oppose the proposal? >> >> - Do you see any disadvantages in this proposal? >> >> - Is there anything in the proposal that is not clear? >> >> - What changes could be made to this proposal to make it more >> >> effective? >> >> >> >> Please find the text of the proposal below. >> >> >> >> Kind Regards, >> >> >> >> Sumon, Bertrand, Ching-Heng >> >> APNIC Policy SIG Chairs >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> prop-118-v001: No need policy in APNIC region >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> Proposer: David Hilario >> >> d.hila...@laruscloudservice.net >> >> <mailto:d.hila...@laruscloudservice.net> >> >> >> >> >> >> 1. Problem statement >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> Whenever a transfer of IPv4 is taking place within the APNIC >> >> region, the >> >> recipient needs to demonstrate the "need" for the IPv4 space they >> >> intend >> >> to transfer. >> >> >> >> Companies transferring IPv4 space to their pool do this in ordcer >> to >> >> enable further growth in their network, since the space is not >> coming >> >> from the free public pool, regular policies that are intended to >> >> protect >> >> the limited pool of IPv4 space can be removed in transfers. >> >> >> >> >> >> 2. Objective of policy change >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> Simplify transfer of IPv4 space between resource holders. >> >> Ease some administration on APNIC staff. >> >> >> >> >> >> 3. Situation in other regions >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> RIPE region has an all around no need policy in IPv4, even for >> first >> >> allocation, transfers do not require the recipient to demonstrate >> >> their >> >> intended use of the resources . >> >> >> >> ARIN, need base for both transfers and resources issued by ARIN. >> >> >> >> AFRINIC, need based policy on transfers (not active yet) and >> resource >> >> request from AFRINIC based on needs. >> >> >> >> LACNIC, no transfers, need based request. >> >> >> >> Out of all these RIR, only ARIN and RIPE NCC have inter-RIR >> transfer >> >> policies, ARIN has made clear in the past that the "no need" >> policy >> >> from the RIPE region would break inter-RIR transfers from ARIN to >> >> RIPE >> >> region. >> >> >> >> >> >> 4. Proposed policy solution >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> Simply copy the RIPE policy to solve the ARIN transfer >> >> incompatibility: >> >> >> >> - APNIC shall accept all transfers of Internet number resources >> >> to its >> >> service region, provided that they comply with the policies >> >> relating >> >> to transfers within its service region. >> >> >> >> - For transfers from RIR regions that require the receiving >> >> region to >> >> have needs-based policies, recipients must provide a plan to the >> >> APNIC for the use of at least 50% of the transferred resources >> >> within >> >> 5 years. >> >> >> >> source: >> >> https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-644 >> <https://u5763498.ct.sendgrid.net/wf/click?upn=16bEysF9x2jUX1XY2ZMKUrALMsHil-2BpVmNTNd6yDOuFusAIW7wV7s3bVF4S4QfQhmE-2FurmywiubVNS9Y1KHJMw-3D-3D_UAkvnIPiyHBK93gJxXZbN-2FFqWUVGpvc0TKjBg0wTWpXOU0MXB1M8x3Zyxddwnmd-2BpTCVRq0Adxjsc6k2nPoR-2F5sr3NNP-2B5YEHn140x0jHicV1UCCs0i1EI-2By3-2BvnxoRxGPYvfd3q9vutNihX-2FAeN6gynWAVNdV9mhr-2FWO4uDVccq0w-2B9ZSvfJxSmmH0pj-2Fs2WILvHiIT9kQ67c-2FkoUObjA-3D-3D> >> >> >> >> >> >> 5. Advantages / Disadvantages >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> Advantages: >> >> >> >> - Harmonisation with RIPE region. >> >> - Makes transfer simpler and smoother within APNIC and between >> APNIC >> >> and RIPE. >> >> - maintains a compatibility with ARIN. >> >> - Removes the uncertainty that a transfer may be rejected based on >> >> potentially badly documented needs. >> >> - Lowers the overall administrative burden on APNIC staff. >> >> >> >> Disadvantages: >> >> >> >> none. >> >> >> >> >> >> 6. Impact on resource holders >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> >> None >> >> >> >> >> >> 7. References >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Sig-policy-chair mailing list >> >> sig-policy-ch...@apnic.net <mailto:sig-policy-ch...@apnic.net> >> >> https://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/sig-policy-chair >> <https://u5763498.ct.sendgrid.net/wf/click?upn=16bEysF9x2jUX1XY2ZMKUmipBN84-2BmQ2TjZWRnzKphdJ0-2BKxcniH6DgValcOC2Gu39-2FFoXqAQ5U9evI0jdNBsk-2FpNKgh-2F8kxs9khcXTG1Nc-3D_UAkvnIPiyHBK93gJxXZbN-2FFqWUVGpvc0TKjBg0wTWpXOU0MXB1M8x3Zyxddwnmd-2BZMMjr38RKUfIcVBEMimoipp6Z-2BHpC8esO402GY5w1swZrIKh2qnjAetI0kBy1pSbov7NHzpK8yQYnCqyazQn5vjKdnhnc6qg0fDrUNtWJFOw0FwHaaBFoj8c5NEkbdnE-2BFSAIUQTiRObBnpEWiiYOQ-3D-3D> >> >> * sig-policy: APNIC SIG on resource management policy >> >> * >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> sig-policy mailing list >> >> sig-policy@lists.apnic.net <mailto:sig-policy@lists.apnic.net> >> >> https://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/sig-policy >> <https://u5763498.ct.sendgrid.net/wf/click?upn=16bEysF9x2jUX1XY2ZMKUmipBN84-2BmQ2TjZWRnzKphdJ0-2BKxcniH6DgValcOC2GuxhPMQtuW0tiU5TPMpCEiaQ-3D-3D_UAkvnIPiyHBK93gJxXZbN-2FFqWUVGpvc0TKjBg0wTWpXOU0MXB1M8x3Zyxddwnmd-2BBDQIGXW5kZLa4bK6Zf6Wk42Q-2B7A4z-2Bhkx67H64tx2FM9TuLmRanLayp19WogmC-2BqbZrZ5W6Ok3R0hiU5290veXKkh15FWahg2JjMk1JjcugcswodoYeyGU3kFaDGInlN9UcycuWhP-2F5gmDo2QoRV6Q-3D-3D> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Best Wishes, >> >> >> >> Aftab A. Siddiqui >> >> >> >> >> >> * sig-policy: APNIC SIG on resource management >> >> policy * >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> sig-policy mailing list >> >> sig-policy@lists.apnic.net >> >> https://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/sig-policy >> <https://u5763498.ct.sendgrid.net/wf/click?upn=16bEysF9x2jUX1XY2ZMKUmipBN84-2BmQ2TjZWRnzKphdJ0-2BKxcniH6DgValcOC2GuxhPMQtuW0tiU5TPMpCEiaQ-3D-3D_UAkvnIPiyHBK93gJxXZbN-2FFqWUVGpvc0TKjBg0wTWpXOU0MXB1M8x3Zyxddwnmd-2B69wMkYu-2FABOUhHTq0p7cOUylhOJ3XqQnHDyhx3t87t6LB3RaT5Zv45l247UGykxsQbTewsaRO8iCqH8KZ4q785dgGs6ZYakE1koMdi1SVoTItlRa-2BwKs9qUOcF-2Bxi5wFg92lFyUdzvKmCGWC6NaZmw-3D-3D> >> >> >> > -- > Best Wishes, > > Aftab A. Siddiqui > * sig-policy: APNIC SIG on resource management policy * > _______________________________________________ > sig-policy mailing list > sig-policy@lists.apnic.net > https://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/sig-policy > <https://u5763498.ct.sendgrid.net/wf/click?upn=16bEysF9x2jUX1XY2ZMKUmipBN84-2BmQ2TjZWRnzKphdJ0-2BKxcniH6DgValcOC2GuxhPMQtuW0tiU5TPMpCEiaQ-3D-3D_UAkvnIPiyHBK93gJxXZbN-2FFqWUVGpvc0TKjBg0wTWpXOU0MXB1M8x3Zyxddwnmd-2BQTZNxyeYPB8Bt5hPUrQup68YCsnB-2BReo8ggVpIyNhXSOu7QHAa3nodsd2VzqR-2FhhyPK50zAMs3oGVT-2FRD8ERMv3LMtnZuGqMxOjO3lmsVDYoiqWk4l9CwsylWGikMiz-2ByawoWjCt8l2AovN0xjoTWw-3D-3D> > > > * sig-policy: APNIC SIG on resource management policy > * > _______________________________________________ > sig-policy mailing list > sig-policy@lists.apnic.net > https://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/sig-policy > >
* sig-policy: APNIC SIG on resource management policy * _______________________________________________ sig-policy mailing list sig-policy@lists.apnic.net https://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/sig-policy
