shiv sastry wrote: [ on 08:21 PM 5/20/2007 ]
Sorry - I don't understand what you are talking about wrt the "martyrdom"
business.
Will come back to this after my responses below.
You say they are highly overdone? I don't buy that. I have said it like it is
and will retract and apologize if you can point out what is overdone about my
characterization of Hindus.
To quote your earlier post:
1)Hindus worship stones, snakes, mythical beasts with elephant heads and a
human torso with many arms, monkey Gods who are picturized ripping their own
chests open to show another blue colored human God in the middle of the gore,
a many armed Goddess who is worshipped for her ability to kill what Hindus
term "evil", and they certainly don't term any of the above practices as
"evil".
Yes, and who exactly termed any of the above practices "evil"?
2)Hindus build and worship weird temples that have the most graphic
pornographic imagery, apart from worshipping a phallic symbol set in a vagina
representing one of the most powerful Gods in the Hindu pantheon - Shiva.
From the viewpoint of the Bible, this is nothing less than devil worship.
This is where it starts to get really overdone.
You have conflated fact and opinion, in a similar
manner as you accused Martha Nussbaum of. This
was the "rhetorical stunt" I was pointing at. The
opinions in the above relate to "graphic" and
"pornographic" as adjectives. I attach for your
edification the usual definitions of the words,
and I claim that none of them actually apply in the sentence above.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/dict.asp?Word=graphic
graph·ic (grfk)
adj. also graph·i·cal (--kl)
1.
a. Of or relating to written representation.
b. Of or relating to pictorial representation.
2. Of, relating to, or represented by or as if by a graph.
3.
a. Described in vivid detail.
b. Clearly outlined or set forth.
4. Of or relating to the graphic arts.
5. Of or relating to graphics.
6. Geology Having crystals resembling printed characters.
n.
1. A work of graphic art.
2. A pictorial device used for illustration, as in a lecture.
3. A graphic display generated by a computer or an imaging device.
[Latin graphicus, from Greek graphikos, from
graph, writing, from graphein, to write; see gerbh- in Indo-European roots.]
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/dict.asp?Word=pornographic
por·nog·ra·phy (pôr-ngr-f)
n.
1. Sexually explicit pictures, writing, or other
material whose primary purpose is to cause sexual arousal.
2. The presentation or production of this material.
3. Lurid or sensational material: "Recent novels
about the Holocaust have kept Hitler well
offstage [so as] to avoid the ... pornography of the era" Morris Dickstein.
[French pornographie, from pornographe,
pornographer, from Late Greek pornographos,
writing about prostitutes : porn, prostitute; see
per-5 in Indo-European roots + graphein, to write; see -graphy.]
3)Hindu worship involves the ceremonies in which people cover themselves with
ash and other colored powder, take out huge processions with images of their
violent half animal Gods while making the loudest possible noise in the form
of chants, drums and "music" from the most unearthly instruments - made from
sea-shells and elephant tusks, and heaven help anyone who objects.
How much more difference could there be between Hindu practices and what one
sees in civilized, law abiding societies?
Here's where the conflation starts again - this
is another example of what I like to call
"smuggling in the desired answer as part of the question".
It seems quite clear that by the
standards of behavior seen as "normal and civilized" in "modern society"
Hindus certainly are a fanatical people whose behavior closely resembles
Biblical or Quranic descriptions of evil, devil worshippers or people who are
yet to be saved, or people who cannot be saved in their current state.
Again, unsupported by the article.
So if "fanatical" is synonymous with Hindus,
and if fanatical is a derogatory
term, there has to be a built in bias against being Hindu. Show me people
who will not characterize the normal Hindu behavior I have described above as
being fanatical?
I claim that there are indeed large numbers of
people who will NOT characterize the above behaviours as "fanatical".
As far as I can tell they are *perfectly*
accurate. Accuracy sounds like "overdone" to you and that is part of what I
am trying to point out.
Indeed? Do you still believe this to be the case?
As for your "rhetorical stunt" statement - it is
a needless accusation which I
would characterise as an ad hominem. Please don't do that.
It is neither accusation nor ad hominem. Any
means you choose to advance your argument will
consist of at least one rhetorical device. I am
choosing to label the device you adopt here a
"stunt". And since I am speaking of your argument
and not of you personally, it can't be ad hominem either.
One last thing - lost here in the noise over how
Hindus are characterized and so on, is the larger
point about whether democracy is under attack in
India or not. Do you believe it is, and why?
Udhay
--
((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))
