Was this top post in response to something Ashok wrote? -d
On Jan 22, 2008 12:32 AM, Eugen Leitl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-posting > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-posting#Netiquette_Guidelines > > > On Tue, Jan 22, 2008 at 12:24:10AM +0530, Ashok Krish wrote: > > Valid points. From a neutral perspective, India would in fact be much more > > unsafe, as there is far less respect for individual freedoms and the rule of > > law. The US has become more paranoid post-911, and as somebody who > > apparently "looks" middle-eastern, I have had my fair share of being chosen > > for "random" searches. > > > > That said, I would probably feel more uncomfortable in say, the North-East > > (Nagaland etc), where quite a bit of the population does not quite consider > > itself Indian. > > > > > > On Jan 21, 2008 9:57 AM, Srini Ramakrishnan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > I assume that question largely went out to the Indians on the list who > > > would fit nicely into the emigree-to-USA crowd. So, my additional > > > question to them is, how safe do you feel about living in India? > > > > > > How safe do you feel when you are in the presence of a policeman, > > > politician, government bureaucrat when you transact official business > > > with them? Would your feelings change if you were from a different > > > Indian ethnicity, perhaps a minority - religious, ethnic, geographical > > > or a combination of those. How about a different economic condition, > > > say much poorer or much richer. > > > > > > How safely do you think India protects your assets? What is your level > > > of comfort in owning land for example, where the records system is > > > usually without backup, and really has no protection against illegal > > > modification? > > > > > > How confident are you that you will not be subject to illegal > > > detention in the prisons you helped pay for with your taxes, and if > > > you were ever to find yourself in such a situation, how would you > > > rate your chances of getting access to a free and fair trial and > > > timely legal remedy? > > > > > > For all of the above questions, would your answer change significantly > > > if you were in a strange part of the country with no access to your > > > friends, powerful connections and money? > > > > > > How effectively do you think you would fit in with local society if > > > you were to move to a different part of India, perhaps one where you > > > don't speak the local language? > > > > > > Cheeni > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 21, 2008 9:34 AM, Gautam John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Do stories such as this affect your thinking or actual > > > > living/working/studying in the US? > > > > > > > > ___________________ > > > > IN a recent morning interview in a Midtown Manhattan office Ramak > > > > Fazel came across as the quintessential world citizen: tall, slim and > > > > elegant, his English tinged with an untraceable accent and peppered > > > > here and there with an Italian phrase. > > > > > > > > He also exuded the weariness of a frequent flier, having arrived the > > > > afternoon before at Newark Liberty Airport, where he was delayed for > > > > nearly three hours while United States Customs and Border Protection > > > > agents questioned him about the purpose of his trip, searched his > > > > baggage and photocopied the pages of his personal agenda. > > > > > > > > That routine is something that Mr. Fazel, a 42-year-old freelance > > > > photographer who lives in Milan, Italy, has come to know well, and he > > > > takes pains to come across as favorably as possible. For starters, he > > > > makes sure his face is always immaculately cleanshaven. > > > > > > > > "I have become the poster boy for Gillette," he said, somewhat ruefully. > > > > > > > > Shaving was one of the last things on Mr. Fazel's mind when, on Aug. > > > > 7, 2006, he set out on a photographic and philatelic odyssey from his > > > > mother's home in Fort Wayne, Ind. His mission was to photograph each > > > > of the nation's 50 state capitol buildings and dispatch a postcard > > > > from each city, using postage stamps from a childhood collection. Each > > > > postcard would be mailed to the next state on his journey, where he > > > > would pick it up, continuing until he had gone full circle back to > > > > Indiana. > > > > > > > > But there was a problem. On a flight from Sacramento, Calif., to > > > > Honolulu, Mr. Fazel described his project to a fellow passenger. He > > > > later discovered that she had reported him as suspicious — perhaps to > > > > the pilot or the Transportation Security Administration — and taken a > > > > picture of him as he slept. > > > > > > > > Maybe it was because he was vaguely foreign looking, he reasoned, and > > > > his photographic endeavor seemed menacing in a post-9/11 landscape. He > > > > also had a three-day growth of beard, he recalled. And, although Mr. > > > > Fazel grew up mostly in the United States and is an American citizen, > > > > there was his Iranian name. > > > > > > > > In his view that woman's report began a chain reaction, turning him > > > > into a person of interest for officials from local law enforcement > > > > agencies on up to the F.B.I. On a stop in Annapolis, Md., for example, > > > > he was interrogated about his activities and read his Miranda rights. > > > > Today, he said, his name lingers on what he thinks of simply as the > > > > "the list." (He doesn't know where it originated or who controls it.) > > > > He believes it has prevented him from receiving a visa to India and > > > > caused him be questioned at the border of Poland, both of which he had > > > > visited in the past. He said he has been interrogated the last four > > > > times he has entered the United States. > > > > > > > > That sense of stigmatization — and the pursuit of life, liberty and > > > > art — is a steady undercurrent in "49 State Capitols," an exhibition > > > > of postcards, photographs and ephemera from Mr. Fazel's 2006 trip that > > > > is to open on Wednesday at the Storefront for Art and Architecture in > > > > SoHo. (He ran out of money before he made it to Alaska.) > > > > > > > > "I wanted to learn about America," Mr. Fazel said. "Visiting the > > > > capitols — I don't want to say it's a dream, but we're led as children > > > > to believe that it's kind of an obligation, that you need to see up > > > > close the country you call home. > > > > > > > > "I may live abroad, but my sense of being an American, of loving my > > > > country, has never changed." > > > > > > > > Mr. Fazel, who moved to Italy in 1994, conceived of the trip in 2006 > > > > while visiting his mother in Fort Wayne, where she called his > > > > attention to his stamp collection in the attic. "Do something with > > > > these,' " he remembered her saying. > > > > > > > > He went to a collector who offered him less than he believed his > > > > stamps were worth. "I thought, what a shame to just sell these for > > > > $1,000," Mr. Fazel said. "I felt they needed to be released from that > > > > static state, needed to be released for their original purpose to be > > > > postage." > > > > > > > > What specifically inspired his trip was a page of stamps of the flags > > > > of the 50 states, in the order of their admission to the union, issued > > > > for the nation's bicentennial in 1976. That was the year he began > > > > collecting, shortly after moving to Fort Wayne, where the Fazels were > > > > the only Iranian family. > > > > > > > > Mr. Fazel was born in Iran but moved to the United States when he was > > > > 2 months old. His father, who was then working on his doctorate in > > > > psychology, and his mother, who eventually became a potter, settled in > > > > Logan, Utah, and then in Fort Wayne. In 1970 the family briefly moved > > > > back to Iran, where his father taught in a satellite campus of Harvard > > > > Business School in Tehran; in 1976 they returned to Fort Wayne. > > > > > > > > Mr. Fazel, feeling something of an outsider in a community divided > > > > into white and black, athletically gifted and not, turned to stamp > > > > collecting at his father's urging. "Through stamps I had the chance to > > > > learn about America and American culture," he said. He collected > > > > enthusiastically, using money he earned from mowing lawns and > > > > shoveling snow. > > > > > > > > But with a driver's license came adult freedom, and Mr. Fazel tucked > > > > his collection away. He earned a degree in mechanical engineering at > > > > Purdue University, then went to New York to study graphic design and > > > > photography. In 1994 he moved to Milan — "to enrich myself, invest in > > > > myself," he said — and to overcome a sense of his cultural > > > > limitations. He feels that he succeeded, he said, yet he never stopped > > > > pondering what it meant for him to be American. > > > > > > > > So in the spring of 2006, stamps in hand, he began to plot his road > > > > trip, researching the shortest distances from state capital to state > > > > capital and the locations of post offices and Y.M.C.A.'s (where he > > > > could shower and swim). He spent $1,500 on a used Chevy van in which > > > > he would live and another $2,000 to refurbish it. At night he would > > > > often seek out Wal-Mart parking lots, where security was tight, to > > > > park his van and sleep. > > > > > > > > In each capital Mr. Fazel would research the state's history in a > > > > library and then design a 10-by-14-inch postcard on white stock, > > > > adorned with mosaics he concocted from stamps related to the state. > > > > > > > > The postcard he sent from Florida to Georgia honors space flight; the > > > > one from Hawaii to Arizona pays tribute to Pearl Harbor. The postcard > > > > sent from New York to Pennsylvania bears 11-cent stamps from 1965 that > > > > Mr. Fazel arranged in the shape of the twin towers — one toppling > > > > over, the other being pierced by a commercial aviation stamp — and > > > > with fire truck and ambulance stamps and a commemorative stamp of St. > > > > Vincent's Hospital Manhattan. > > > > > > > > Mr. Fazel drove 17,345 miles in 78 days, mailing a postcard from each > > > > city and picking it up in the next one, with the speed of the mail > > > > dictating the pace of his trip. "It was such a nice surprise to > > > > discover how reliable the postal system was," he said, adding that > > > > some of the cards arrived within 12 hours. > > > > > > > > But in Jackson, Miss., his journey took its bizarre twist. One night, > > > > as he sat in his van, a beam of light pierced his reverie. He heard > > > > his name over a loudspeaker and a command to step out of the vehicle > > > > with his hands held high. > > > > > > > > Suddenly, Mr. Fazel said, he was forced to the ground, face to the > > > > concrete, and handcuffed by a city police officer. His vehicle was > > > > searched, and when the officers determined that nothing was amiss, Mr. > > > > Fazel was ordered to leave the parking lot and continue down the road. > > > > > > > > He said the officers told him that they had received a report that he > > > > was aiming an automatic weapon at passing traffic. > > > > > > > > Lee D. Vance, assistant chief of the Jackson city police, said he > > > > could not confirm the incident because it had not resulted in an > > > > arrest and because Mr. Fazel has not filed a complaint. > > > > > > > > As Mr. Fazel continued his travels, he slowly began to perceive that > > > > he was on some kind of watch list. In Atlanta he was prohibited from > > > > entering the Capitol, he said, even as others did. In Columbia, S.C., > > > > he was questioned on the grounds of the Capitol by a police officer > > > > who mentioned that he knew Mr. Fazel lived in Italy. > > > > > > > > On the morning of Oct. 3, he entered the Maryland Capitol in > > > > Annapolis, where he presented identification and signed his name on a > > > > visitors' sheet. A guard asked him to wait. > > > > > > > > Suddenly, Mr. Fazel said, he was handcuffed and rushed through > > > > corridors into a police station, where a man he later learned was a > > > > member of the Maryland Joint Terrorism Task Force with the F.B.I. > > > > started speaking to him in Farsi. > > > > > > > > As Mr. Fazel related it, the experience went as follows: > > > > > > > > "I'm American," Mr. Fazel said. "I speak English." > > > > > > > > Another officer asked, "Where are you really from?" Mr. Fazel produced > > > > his Indiana driver's license. > > > > > > > > "I can tell by looking at you that you're not from Fort Wayne," the > > > > officer replied. > > > > > > > > After a four-hour encounter in which he was asked about a recent trip > > > > to Iran for an Italian design magazine and about who was financing his > > > > trip to state capitols, he was released without being charged. But he > > > > was also warned by an F.B.I. official that he was now in the system > > > > and would have troubles if he continued his trip. > > > > > > > > Richard Wolf, a media coordinator with the F.B.I. in Baltimore, said > > > > he had no knowledge of the incident. He added, "We don't normally > > > > respond or comment on any sort of leads we've conducted with the Joint > > > > Terrorism Task Force." > > > > > > > > Asked whether Mr. Fazel was on the government's terrorist watch list, > > > > Bill Carter, an F.B.I. spokesman in Washington, said that as a matter > > > > of policy, "we can't verify whether an individual is on a watch list > > > > or not." > > > > > > > > After the incident in Maryland Mr. Fazel called Brett R. Fleitz, a > > > > lawyer in Indianapolis and a childhood friend. Mr. Fleitz said he > > > > immediately sought to reassure him. "I implored him to continue > > > > because he was very, very doubtful about the prospects for going on > > > > and the dangers that might lie ahead," Mr. Fleitz said. "I said, > > > > 'Dude, you're an American.' And Ramak said, 'No, I'm a naturalized > > > > American.' And I said: 'It doesn't matter. There aren't two tiers of > > > > citizenship here. You have nothing to hide.' " > > > > > > > > He advised Mr. Fazel to greet law enforcement officers cheerfully and > > > > "lay it all out," as well as to ask for and photocopy the business > > > > cards of the authorities he encountered. > > > > > > > > Mr. Fazel forged toward the last half of his destinations with his > > > > camera, a 1964 Rolleiflex. Despite being questioned at or denied > > > > entrance to the remaining capitols, he got every one of his pictures: > > > > sometimes an image of gilded rotundas or historic murals, other times > > > > pictures of the everyday, the mundane. He photographed visitors in > > > > House chambers; a funeral procession for Ann Richards, a onetime Texas > > > > governor; a portrait of Arnold Schwarzenegger and his wife, Maria > > > > Shriver, in the waiting room of the California governor's office. > > > > > > > > And as the mood of his trip changed from joy to disquiet, he > > > > photographed police officers at one capitol, and, at another, a > > > > "caution" tape blocking an entrance. > > > > > > > > In Albany, Mr. Fazel was asked to wait at the entrance of the Capitol > > > > until investigators talked with him. One gave him a big slap on the > > > > back, Mr. Fazel recalled, and said, "I know everything about you, and > > > > I know you've been getting a lot of attention." > > > > > > > > Thomas M. Peters, a senior investigator with the New York State > > > > Police, confirmed that Mr. Fazel's journey from capitol to capitol had > > > > raised suspicion. > > > > > > > > "We were notified in advance that he was making his way up the East > > > > Coast from his stops at other capitols, where he was challenged by law > > > > enforcement agents," he said. "They indicated that at some times he > > > > seemed agitated and seemed to be giving evasive answers to their > > > > questions, but we don't know for sure because we were basically > > > > getting this information thirdhand." > > > > > > > > Mr. Peters added: "He was fine with us. And if he was agitated, it was > > > > probably because he got tired of being questioned." > > > > > > > > Looking back on his travels, Mr. Fazel said: "Notwithstanding the > > > > intense scrutiny, the trip was a positive experience. I'm neither > > > > rancorous, nor do I feel offended." > > > > > > > > Still, he said, he would like to see his name removed from "the list," > > > > or whatever it is that caused him to be repeatedly stopped and > > > > questioned. > > > > > > > > The journey ultimately left him wondering what it means to be American > > > > — and, more fundamentally, who he really was. > > > > > > > > "What I thought would be an exercise in self-betterment turned out to > > > > be something a little bigger," he said dryly. > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/20/arts/design/20shat.html?_r=1%26sq=photographs%20iran%20capitol%26oref=slogin%26scp=1%26pagewanted=all > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Cheeni > > > > > > Q: Why is this email 5 sentences or fewer? > > > A: http://five.sentenc.es/ > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Krish Ashok > > Blog: krishashok.wordpress.com > > GTalk: krishashok > > www.stage.fm/krishashok > > -- > Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org";>leitl</a> http://leitl.org > ______________________________________________________________ > ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org > 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE > > -- Tea Beedi
