Tim,
> > > Because the Arab countries rejected the propose division of the land and
> > > went to war to wipe out Israel. As usual they lost, leaving "Palestine"
> > as
> > > the West Bank/Gaza rump, which at the time nobody believed was a viable
> > > basis for a state (this may be correct). This lasted 19 years until the
> > > Arab nations tried again and lost again.
> >
> > Try replacing the phrase "wipe out Israel"
> > with "defend their homes, land and people".
> > It captures the motivation a lot better.
>
>
> Um, I'm sufficiently pro-Palestinian to have gotten myself in trouble
> repeatedly.
Zionists have made any criticism of their actions
"politically incorrect". Most people in the USA
feel they have to whisper, for fear of being confused
with a Nazi if they disapprove of the use of Israeli
cluster bombs against civilians (actually the cluster
bombs are from the USA... but that's another issue).
Thank you Tim.
> Having said that, the fact is that in '48 and '67, the Arab
> strategy for dealing with the problem was to attempt to wipe out the state
> of Israel. This is a matter of historical fact, as is the fact that it
> didn't work.
My observation here is the unequal treatment of Palestinians
when it comes to the terms that are applied to them. Initially,
Jews were welcomed by the Palestinians. This was at a time
when Jews were badly mistreated elsewhere. Jews and Palestinians
lived side by side, peacefully. Palestinians were quite different
from the anti-Semites of Europe.
Einstein and other liberals in the Socialist movement hoped it would
be possible to continue that peace, but the *actions* of people
like Menachem Begin made this impossible. The Zionists are the
ones who initiated (and have largely succeeded) racial cleansing,
not the other way around.
Why is it then, that we only hear of Palestinian's desire to get
rid of Israel, and their "failure" to recognize it? It is the
Palestinians who have been occupied, robbed, bombed, and denied
a state for so many decades. It's natural to want to get rid
of a state created by foreigners on your land. Yes, Palestinians
wanted to get rid of Israel, but repeating that one fact over and
over while failing to acknowledge that this was only after the
Zionists began an ethnic cleansing of the region is Orwellian.
Here's another excerpt from Albert Einstein's public letter:
The public avowals of Begin's party are no guide
whatever to its actual character. Today they speak of
freedom, democracy and anti-imperialism, whereas until
recently they openly preached the doctrine of the
Fascist state. It is in its actions that the terrorist
party betrays its real character; from its past actions
we can judge what it may be expected to do in the
future.
A shocking example was their behavior in the Arab
village of Deir Yassin. This village, off the main roads
and surrounded by Jewish lands, had taken no part in the
war, and had even fought off Arab bands who wanted to
use the village as their base. On April 9 (THE NEW YORK
TIMES), terrorist bands attacked this peaceful village,
which was not a military objective in the fighting,
killed most of its inhabitants 240 men, women, and
children and kept a few of them alive to parade as
captives through the streets of Jerusalem. Most of the
Jewish community was horrified at the deed, and the
Jewish Agency sent a telegram of apology to King
Abdullah of Trans-Jordan. But the terrorists, far from
being ashamed of their act, were proud of this massacre,
publicized it widely, and invited all the foreign
correspondents present in the country to view the heaped
corpses and the general havoc at Deir Yassin.
So there you have it, directly from a man who was nominated
to be Israel's president, and refused. Why should Zionist
settlers be "freedom fighters in a war of liberation", while
the people who want to get back what was taken from them by
force *with* force be labeled terrorists bent on the destruction
of Israel?
> I'm increasingly coming to believe that the two-state solution has become
> impossible simply because the Israeli settler movement (and there's as nasty
> a bunch of filthy racists as you'll find anywhere) has essentially won.
I agree.
> If the USA instantly, like within *months*, informed Israel that all further
> aid and moral support would be discontinued failing immediate rapid progress
> on the evacuation of the settlements, there might be hope. But I don't
> believe that's going to happen.
>
> See http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2009/01/23/Muammar-Ghost
I think you're right.
In 10 years or so, when Palestinians form a majority,
I think we'll either see a new round of ethnic cleansing,
a deepening of the apartheid, or both.
Unfortunately, I think the most likely outcome is "both".
CBS News did a pretty good segment on this issue recently:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/01/23/60minutes/main4749723.shtml
Sincerely,
-Jon
