Srini, there's absolutely no contradiction here.

If you're a journalist for, say, The New Yorker, you're going to get paid
rather more for your talents than if you were a stringer for the ToI.

Customers want street food just as much as others want fine dining.
Forcing them all to stick to fine dining isn't going to work.

As for the "crusading" part - it takes place, with various political slants
these days rather than when there was, so to speak, a "common enemy" like
the british to campaign against.

I fully agree with the rest of Salil's points.

If Samanth is still on silk - dude, now's the time to chime in.

Srini RamaKrishnan [13/12/11 02:50 +0100]:
I'd rather make a general case than argue with your semantics, but I
am unable because I am confused by your mutually contradictory
positions.

If you entirely believe in what you say about informed consumers and
consumer choice, then providing what the consumer wants according to
you is fine journalism. Yet you conclude by saying that if someone
paid others to write, then that would produce fine journalism.

A free market is not to be confused with a perfect market where
individuals have perfect information and there is perfect competition.
In today's world there is no such thing as a perfectly informed
consumer, most consumers are rather imperfectly informed as it
happens. In Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations, a few hundred pages in the
case is rather eloquently made for avoiding capitalism as practiced
today as it would be only beneficial for society under perfect market
conditions. Do give the book a read, he's a fine writer, and a great
enlightenment figure - who would be shocked and terrified at what
passes for capitalism today. As an aside, his book is also scathingly
critical of British imperialism in India. That man wasn't a
journalist, but he had a concern for the well being of society.

Good journalism has always been in short supply. Despite the fantastic
courage of Indian journalists of the 19th century, as I previously
documented, there are very few records of the atrocities of 1857 and
subsequent years on account of the gagging act which went into force
in the same year - the chilling effect of censorship all but destroyed
the creation of any detailed records of the event.

I like the John Dewey quote that goes: "As long as politics is the
shadow cast on society by big business, the attenuation of the shadow
will not change the substance."

I haven't read much of your writing, nor did I think it was necessary
- though since you provided the link I read through your piece
criticizing Sainath, I thought it was hand wavy and cast aspersions
without offering much in the way of evidence or even argument. Sorry,
but you asked.

I'd also recommend you read up on Godwin's law.


On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 11:25 PM, Salil Tripathi <[email protected]> wrote:


On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 8:39 PM, Srini RamaKrishnan <[email protected]>
wrote:

Journalists are the physicians of the nervous system of society - it's
not enough that they medicate the symptoms, but it's imperative that
they cure the disease and guide the patient on the path of good
health.



This biology lecture would be unnecessary if you care to check what I write
about, where, and what tone I adopt.



I would consider the circular logic of "we only serve what the paying
customer wants" grievously mistaken on many counts.


That's an explanation of the profession, as well as recognition of the
reality, that you can't write in isolation, without someone covering the
costs of reporting and analysis.


Other major users of this fig leaf are the massively profitable and
demonstrably evil tobacco companies and fast food restaurant chains of
the world.


Zzzz.


This attitude is clearly harmful to society.


According to you, yes. Otherwise, informed consumers can make informed
choices; it is not for you or me to tell them what they should read - or
not. Particularly if they're adults.


Who tells the people what
they want? People do not form their opinions out of the ether.


People do decide, once they're adults, on various important issues. They can
marry, drive, stand for elections, etc. By the same token, they should be
able to exercise their choice about what to read - or not.


In an increasingly informed secular and scientific age, a single
prime-time news reporter or journal forms more public opinions than
any pastor ever did preaching from the pulpit. How then can one
gainsay the responsibility of journalism for public morality and
conscience?


The day journalists are made conscience-keepers of any society, that society
is doomed. Journalists are curious people, who want to find out what
happened and tell a story. They are not particularly endowed with superior
ethical or any other values.


If your principal defense is that journalism is a carrion trade no
better than big tobacco, I wouldn't call that practice journalism.


And that's your comparison, not mine.


I associate journalism with a fine tradition, of the likes of White
Rose, with the motto "We will not be silent" whose authors were
executed by the Gestapo after only their sixth publication.


Once again you bring Mr Godwin's Law to life. Thanks.


I think it's fitting to quote these words from the first edition of
White Rose:"If everyone waits until the other man makes a start, the
messengers of avenging Nemesis will come steadily closer."
Though I prefer to associate Indian journalism with finer examples
like "swadeshi mithran", "Kesari", "Induprakash" and the "Mahratta",
even the first newspaper to be published in India, the "Bengal
Gazette", formed in 1880 with the rather ordinary objective of selling
advertisements felt the need to lay claim to journalistic impartiality
with this founding statement - “a weekly political and commercial
paper open to all parties but influenced by none”.


Mahratta and Kesari were campaigning newspapers, meant to fight the colonial
rule and ills within the society - like Gandhi's Indian Opinion or Navjivan.
Similar examples would be Bhumiputra or Opinion and Mainstream during the
Emergency. Those have place on a news-stand, in a society. But you can't
narrowly define that as the sole form of journalism.


Indian journalism of that age operated under draconian laws such as
the Gagging act and then the even more powerful Vernacular Press Act,
and yet the publications remained fearless and spoke the cause of
truth.


You don't have such laws now, so such ferocious responses are not
necessary.


But for fearless journalism by more than one dozen Indian publications
despite the real threat of jailtime and execution, the Company
practice of misappropriating princely states through minority
administration would never have come to light. Tilak went to jail for
writing the truth.


But India is not under colonial rule requiring such "seditious" writing. To
some, Arundhati Roy does write "seditious" stuff. And the last time I
checked, she has no problem getting published in India.

If the newspapers and media organizations of today had done their job
then as many people would have heard of Irom Sharmila as they have of
Anna Hazare, but is that the case?


There have been many stories about Irom Sharmila. But yes, more Indians have
heard of Sharmila Tagore than of Irom Sharmila. Too many people have heard
of Kisan Hazare, not enough have heard of Vijay Hazare.



People like P. Sainath are a rare
breed, almost from another planet.


Something I wrote three years
ago. http://www.livemint.com/2008/04/30225139/Media-and-moral-outrage.html.


In an information age only second to the age of Gutenberg in
significance, merely publishing the odd story or two of consequence
while remaining safe from physical or financial harm is hardly
praiseworthy.


Who are you talking about? If it is me, have you bothered to explore what I
write about?


Journalism today is the inheritor of hard won freedoms that people
have given up their lives to protect. To run it like it was a business
of selling french fries is just not on.


Fine, will you subsidise fine journalism, then?



Cheeni


Salil


On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 5:49 PM, Salil Tripathi <[email protected]> wrote:
> Some responses, interspersed.
>
> On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 12:22 AM, Srini RamaKrishnan <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>>
>> I'm not an expert in anything, and therefore I suspect I am eligible to
>> hold opinions on everything.
>>
>> If the newspapers and media organizations of today believe in the "pen
>> is
>> mightier than the sword" rah rah rah, and, I know most of them claim
>> to;
>> but, if, _if_  they are really interested in leading social change as
>> the
>> fifth column and all that, then it's really simple, they must do their
>> job.
>>
>
> Leading social change is not the responsibility of the media. If they
> can
> report social change properly, that's good enough.
>
>
>>
>> When newspapers promote salacious content over news, they become
>> tabloids.
>> When the writer would rather entertain the reader, he becomes an
>> entertainer. If it isn't intellectual dishonesty that the newspapers of
>> the
>> world are guilty of, then it is dereliction of duty.
>>
>
> They promote salacious content because readers want them. Entertaining a
> reader is not a bad function. I don't think it is dereliction of duty
> either. Most stories that people say "matter" more, are being written.
> If
> people at large don't want to read them, or do something about what
> they've
> read, how is it the media's fault?
>
>>
>> Newspapers have the moral authority to raise their voice when things go
>> wrong, or as is more often the case when things don't go right, they
>> must
>> act with emotion and passion, and show the cause has reason, and most
>> importantly they must tell a story.
>>
>
> Newspapers have the responsibility to report as objectively and humanly
> as
> possible what's going on. Their editors may wish to express their
> opinion
> one way or the other. There is no reason they should back causes that
> are
> described as moral. As we now see with the Hazare movement, it was never
> nonpartisan, but a calculated, cynical anti-UPA movement. (Nothing wrong
> with that motive either).
>
>
>>
>> The art of storytelling is at the heart of the business of journalism.
>> To
>> trigger an emotional response in the reader, based on facts, to cause
>> action.
>>
>> The journalism trade has sadly become the 'house negro' of its economic
>> masters.
>>
>
> ?? Its economic masters are advertisers and in turn readers. If that's
> what
> privately-owned media is responding to, that's fine. You'd be surprised
> at
> the number of newspapers which write stories that are technically
> against
> their owners' interests.
>
>
>>
>> I adore the BBC for the independence of voice it's often been afforded
>> -
>> there isn't a comparable voice of reason in India.
>
>
> The BBC's biases are quite well-known; it isn't bad, but it has an
> undeserved reputation as the neutral voice. There are many good media
> outlets in India. I do write for Mint and Caravan, but both have high
> ethical standards and are not sensationalist; I like a lot of what I see
> in
> some other outlets in India, and if I had more time in the day, I'd
> probably
> want to write for some of them.
>
>
>>
>> I'd love to see a website or a radio station that rallied for the cause
>> of
>> truth become a part of the news landscape in India.
>
>
> What's the "cause of truth"? Which newspaper has not covered the
> corruption
> scams, the tragedy of Kashmir? How do you know about Irom Sharmila?
>
>>
>> This is all the more important in India, a fascist state where a truly
>> independent voice would feel the jackboot.
>>
>
> Yes, as troubles Tehelka faced shows, there are many ways in which the
> Government can harass the media. But how many people signing up for
> Hazare's
> campaign are going to start buying newspapers so that they can be more
> independent of "corporate" support?
>
>> Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom as the saying goes.
>>
>> If you feel strongly about being an honest journalist, then write. No
>> one
>> will give you permission to begin.
>>
>
> Write what? Many of us continue to write about many of these issues.
>
>>
>> Write about anything you feel strongly about. The deplorable lack of
>> free
>> press is a fine starting point.
>>
>
> Thanks.
>
> Salil




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