Thanks, Michael.
This is the same woman I was thinking of. She took "CSP"
which I assume was a prescription colloidal silver protein.
I'm pretty sure I read that it was a prescription. That's
one clue. The protein is needed to keep large
concentrations of CS in the solution. This is the second
clue that she was dealing with a lot of silver. We have no
idea of the particle size or concentration, but I have found
from the Fung article ("Silver Products for Medical
Indications: Risk-Benefit Assessment, "Journal of
Toxicology, vol 34, no.1, pp 119-126, 1996) that the
prescription silvers are quite high in both concentration
and PPM compared to the colloidal silver most of us are
making & taking.
I am glad someone posted seeing a gray skinned person; that
is only the second incidence I know of. I have never seen
anyone with this appearance except due to anoxia-- lack of
oxygen.
I'm curious if anyone else knows of someone with argyria,
and what silver products were linked to it.
Below is a summary of my findings from the Fung article I
cite at my webpage,
http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/silver-works .
I posted a similar email to the list probably at least a
year ago, so this will be new information to some people.
The Fung article does indicate that the "referred" dose of
silver (acceptable amt. for oral elemental silver exposure)
is 5 ug/kg/day for the average person. The "critical dose"
is estimated at 14 ug/kg/day. Regarding safety in drinking
water, EPA states ,0.1 mg/L. [NOTE: ug is microgram; 1
PPM=5 ug.] The maximal daily silver exposure for a 5 kg
infant to a 70 kg adult would be less than 25-350 ug/d.
The article goes on to say, "If the silver is drinking water
sources meets EPA guidelines, an average person who drinks 2
L/d is exposed to less than 200 ug of silver. However, a
regular daily diet may contain up to about 90 ug of silver
as a background level or exposure. (I.e., wheat flour: 0.3
ug/g, gram: 0.9 ug/g, mushrooms, up to several hundred ug/g
of silver, milk, 27-54 ug/L.) (p 120)
"Currently, available CSP products promoted for medicinal or
mineral supplement purposes are reported to have an active
silver ion concentration of about 1-6 PPM (5-30 ug) per
dose. (p 121) Although the active ionizable silver
concentration is in the few PPM range, the total silver
content of the individual products may be much higher."
I don't understand that rationale; PPM is parts per million.
My lab does not differentiate "active silver ions" from
total silver content. The test is for total silver content
which last tested at a mere 8.38 PPM. My new stuff is
probably about 20 PPM made with heated water; still haven't
tested it yet.
Here's a potentially significant remark regarding research:
"...Bunyan et. al. showed that if rat diets were
supplemented with selenium or vitamin E, exposure to silver
as high as 140 mg/kg/d was still well tolerated.
"When absorption is limited, systemic silver toxicity occurs
infrequently. However after ingestion, up to 10% silver
***salts*** may be absorbed." [Note discussion is of SALTS,
not over the counter CS or even of CSP].
"Elimination is primarily via fecal elimination with active
biliary excretion..."
In evaluating the few cases of argyria discussed in this
article, all involved silver salt products of 1%
concentration or higher, or due to industrial accidental
exposure! This would be 1 part or more per 100 (ONE
HUNDRED), FAR FAR greater a concentration than even 100
PPM-- which would be the same as 1 parts per/10,000!
There is no listed silver salt product under 1% in this
article; many are 10% and even up to 75% solutions! Others
are expressed in mg/g (I.e., 1-10 mg/g) which would be
milligrams per gram, again, a measure of parts per 100.
My colloidal silver is no where near these concentrations,
not to mention particle size which remains unknown regarding
these prescriptions. I imagine they could be
microscopically large hunks of ground elemental silver--
"the bigger the better"???!
As far as what Rosemary took, the only product on the list
that looks similar in name & description is a prescription,
"Argyrol SS 20%, which is listed as 20% MILD SILVER PROTEIN,
used as an ophthalmic antiseptic. The nasal variety is not
listed as it apparently has been removed from the market.
No wonder she turned blue, if her medication was 10 or 20%
concentration! That's 20 parts per HUNDRED, whereas most of
us are using no more than 45 parts per MILLION (I.e.,
commercially prepared OTC silver protein at 45 PPM). That
would be .000045 parts per 100!
As a side note, why would a person keep taking this stuff
for years? It must have worked! It is just terribly
unfortunate that the formulation was such that it caused
argyria. But that doesn't mean its a placebo! Just that it
had serious undesirable side effects. Too bad it was the
variety known to cause argyria-- high in concentration and
particle size.
Get the picture? I really think this is a case of making a
mountain out of a mole hill when comparing colloidal silver
to silver salts.
My family went through this when we had our well water
tested. It was high in sodium content (I think 35 mg/L).
So it was "not potable" for people with high blood pressure.
Yet an ounce of cheese doesn't carry a warning label when it
has far more sodium per OUNCE. Just think of what one slice
of pizza has for sodium content!
Reminds me of the Olestra conflict too. Should raisins &
prunes carry a warning label that they may cause abdominal
pain & diarrhea if Olestra has too? (My son had to have a
barium enema after eating too many raisins & prunes at 18
mo. of age because his symptoms mimicked a serious
intestinal anomaly-- telescoping of the intestine within
itself.) But I don't think raisins & prunes need to have a
warning on them! I just need to keep them out of the reach
of big brother who was feeding them to the poor fellow one
after another!
I think the silver debate is due to a lot of miss-applied
information about silver salts and high concentration silver
protein, all of which are prescription drugs, not the low
PPM silver we use and take.
We need to keep all this in perspective.
At the same time, we need to be observant for cases of
argyria linked to low PPM colloidal silver, what brand,
concentration, etc. Do any links to low PPM silver &
argyria really exist? What are the circumstances around it?
Is it repeatable? That's a good scientific approach to this
issue.
The article I read was poorly presented regarding colloidal
silver. It was as though it was put under the spotlight in
the "scary" introduction, and then set aside while silver
salts were torn apart. Without carefully examining all the
"facts" presented, as abstracts of this article usually do
(both online and in journals), one might jump to the
conclusion that cases of argyria from ***low PPM***
colloidal silver were confirmed. The fact is that they were
not.
Sincerely,
Nancy
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael C Slivinski <[email protected]>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>;
[email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Sunday, June 21, 1998 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: Colloidal Silver (The Jacobs story)
>Hello All and for Nancy, here is the ref refered to below:
>
>http://www.tomifobia.com/previous/rosemary.html
>
>mike slivinski
>
>At 07:30 PM 6/20/98 -0400, you wrote:
>>Is this the "blue lady?" If not, please site a reference;
>>I'd like to see this page.
>>
>>If it's the woman I'm thinking of, I don't think she used
>>colloidal silver. I think it was a
>>prescription silver salt in which case the ppm
>>(concentration) and the particle size would have been far
>>greater than that of the CS we generally refer to here.
>>What we take is not much higher than what's considered
>>acceptable for daily silver derived from water and foods
we
>>eat.
>>
>>Presenting CS as though it is the same as silver salts is
>>like saying a raisin is the same as a prune. I read a
whole
>>medical article about the supposed dangers of CS, but
there
>>was no real data pertaining to CS; it all was evidence
based
>>on silver salts and protein silver in high concentrations.
>>(The reference is on my web page, it's a review of
>>literature by Fung, et. al. from the Journal of
Toxicology.)
>>
>>Sincerely,
>>Nancy
>>
>>http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/silver-works (get a
free
>>web page there if you can use one.)
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Michael C Slivinski <[email protected]>
>>To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
>>Date: Saturday, June 20, 1998 1:00 PM
>>Subject: Re: Colloidal Silver (The Jacobs story)
>>
>>
>>>Hello All,
>>>I looked at Rosmary Jacob's, Web Page, and just wanted to
>>comment that it is
>>>interesting that they site the many cases of success
using
>>CS as anecdotal.
>>>
>>>But when they site her case it is not considered
anecdotal
>>in the sense of:
>>> (where are the many others cases like hers that have had
>>experienced cs
>>>poisoning - argyric).
>>>
>>>It is important to know what else she took during her
>>period of illness
>>>that might be giving her this appearance/symtoms through
>>the years.
>>>
>>>We know certain medications and herbal combinations cause
>>side effects and the
>>>doctor wants too blame the herbs and the nutritionists
want
>>to blame the drugs.
>>>
>>>It is both obviously... well, maybe not obvious to some
>>people.
>>>
>>>Just a side story.... a friend of mind did some serious
>>carrot jucing and his
>>>skin turned an almost light brown orange color and he was
>>seeing a doctor for
>>>a required physical checkup and the doctor says... oh the
>>color is the carrot
>>>pigment in his body. My friend says... gee! a friend of
>>mine jucies a lot of
>>>spinach and greens and his skins not green!!
>>>
>>>Thanks mike slivinski
>
>
>--
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colloidal silver.
>
>To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail
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>
--
The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver.
To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to:
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