There is much to learn from ancient pockets of study and wisdom, but they are just pockets. Few will dig into them till they need to and need is relative to obvious failure. "Obvious" is relative to the vision of the seer and some "crackpots" are much better at looking ahead than the average clod buster vast majority who ignores them and depends entirely on tradition. England is a limited space and would naturally seek what it takes to survive it as it became apparent that colonies weren't doing the job.

Wisdom for the sake of wisdom, a rarity, un-common sense, flies in the face of tradition and collects in pockets to survive witch hunts.
 Hunter / gatherer techniques are limited by ability over planning.
Give an average beaver a chain saw and a market for wood... and see how much he really cares about conservation.
I'll bet it never occurs to him till there are a lot more stumps than trees.
THEN, he might consult the acorn burying squirrels in that pocket of squirrel houses too remote to cut down, to satisfy a need for new trees. If he can't make but just so many stumps and there aren't too many beavers trying their limited best, there's no need to think about not enough trees at all. That's not "wisdom", no need for it.
  Without ability, intent is completely irrelevant.
But too many beavers with a market for rolling stone heads around makes Easter Island a barren Island devoid of beavers despite the limitations. That's not wisdom either, but it is certainly a need for it. And it's found where it is, in study of unknown alternatives and in pockets of gathered "crackpot" witches that enhance the study. "People" are smart? Nope, they like to be told they're smart by tradition. Tradition doesn't look, see or think...it just repeats, resisting any change. Fortunately, it tends to leak a bit, as needed, but usually a little bit late and a bit too slow, in GREAT need. It too, doesn't do different till it must. The continuity of result is endless suffering and looming potential for more of the same. Perhaps like *Freedom and Security*, tradition and wisdom should never be used in the same sentence.

 Learning to walk is isolated steps buried under many falls.
Yes, the steps exist amongst the falls, but the falls prevail till pain makes the reference; It's not here *or* there, it's here *and* there.
And THEN, we learn to dance.
Eventually fly, but we're talking quite a few crashes for a while in traditional gliders while jet research is being done by isolated crackpots laying the ground work for inter planetary rockets. Progress for the majority is fits, starts, backtracks and painful repeated error.

Ode

At 04:16 PM 9/11/2007 +0100, you wrote:



--On 11 September 2007 07:52:46 -0400 Ode Coyote <[email protected]> wrote:

Organic/ sustainable farming as we know it and believe it's old,  is a
'New" thing, borne of desperation as we go into another sort of Dust
Bowl, still in development by  wacko hippies who can read hand writing on
walls with no where left to move to.
  It's being developed by methodical science, study and experimentation,
not replicated from centuries of ignorance.

In the "old days" life was ignorant, hard and short for the majority of
folks.

Well, I see what you say regarding America. In europe there is the biodynamic farming which is the mixed farming techniques of Germany's Rudolph Steiner going back to the 1920's and its roots in old practices. His research was clairvoyant. In England similar small mixed farms were the norm until the 1950's and after.

Then there's the vedic farming systems going back pre-5000 years, which are also settled mixed farming. Neither depend on slash and burn. IN the fragile and extensive Himalaya you can observe settled mixed farming in a symbiosis with its environment, with the build up of rich soils. IN fact these practices extend to high altitude alpine grazing land, from where manure is carried down like precious nuggets in baskets on mules, and irrigation channels are cut. Then there's the ancient practices of farming on the upper Nile, with yearly flooding and enrichment of soils. It's not canalised, but again lived upon in symbiosis.

SLash and burn techniques as practised by colonisers with plantations and ranches is different from hunter gather slash and burn techniques in Africa, for several reasons, not least motive. The practice was to make small clearings, and not extend them, but move on to allow rapid re-growth.

John, Libertarian, Faithful, Freedom Fighter.


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