> Without liberals, there would be no modern America, just a Nazi 
> sattlelite state.

Seen the videos of the "Obama youth"?

Liberals weak on defense? Liberals created America's 
> defense. 

Seen Barney Frank's proposal to cut the defense budget by 25%

You confuse today's liberals with yesteryear's.  Completely different
animal.



-----Original Message-----
From: indi [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 11:26 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: CS>Off Topic Politics


On Wed, 5 Nov 2008 11:19:45 -0600
"Norton, Steve" <[email protected]> wrote:

> I try to stay out of the politics but this time I will put in my 2 
> cents and then butt out. Republicans do not have to rejoice in Obama 
> but they should be open to an opportunity for things to be better. The 
> Republicans had their opportunity and it is an understatement to say 
> they failed miserably and would continue to do so if given the chance. 
> So now the Democrats havve their chance and we should all hope they 
> can suceed where the Republicans did not. You seem to consider 
> liberals as a dirty word but in the words of another:
>  
> For the better part of a decade, the conservatives made liberal a 
> dirty word. Well, it isn't. It represents the best and most noble 
> nature of what America stands for: equitable government services, old 
> age pensions, health care, education, fair trials and humane 
> imprisonment. It is the heart and soul of what made American different 
> and better than other countries. Not only an escape from oppression, 
> but the opportunity to thrive in land free of tradition and the 
> repression that can bring. We offered a democracy which didn't 
> enshrine the rich and made them feel they had an obligation to their 
> workers. Bush and the people around him disdain that. They think, by 
> accident of birth and circumstance, they were meant to rule the world 
> and those who did not agree would suffer.
>  
> Liberal does not and has not meant weak until the conservatives said 
> it did. Was Martin Luther King weak? Bobby Kennedy? Gene McCarthy? It 
> was the liberals who remade this country and ended legal segregation 
> and legal sexism. Not the conservatives, who wanted to hold on to the 
> old ways.
>  
> It's time to regain the spirit of FDR and Truman and the people around 
> them. People who believed in the public good over private gain. It is 
> time to stop apologizing for being a liberal and be proud to fight for 
> your beliefs. No more shying away or being defined by other people. 
> Liberals believe in a strong defense and punishment for crime. But not 
> preemption and pointless jail sentences. We believe no American should 
> be turned away from a hospital because they are too poor or lack a 
> proper legal defense. We believe that people should make enough from 
> one job to live on, to spend time on raising their family. We believe 
> that individuals and not the state should dictate who gets married and 
> why. The best way to defend marriage is to expand, not restrict it.
> It was the liberals who opposed the Nazis while the conservatives were
> plotting to get their brown shirts or fund Hitler. It was the liberals
> who warned about Spain and fought there, who joined the RAF to fight
> the Germans, who brought democracy to Germany and Japan. Let us not
> forget it was the conservatives who opposed defending America until
> the Germans sank our ships. They would have done nothing as Britain
> came under Nazi control. It was they who supported Joe McCarthy and
> his baseless, drink fueled claims. 
>  
> Without liberals, there would be no modern America, just a Nazi 
> sattlelite state. Liberals weak on defense? Liberals created America's 
> defense. The conservatives only need vets at election time.
> 
>  - Steve N
> 

Bravo, *very* well said!

Cheers,
indi

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