On Mon, 2009-04-27 at 21:07 -0005, M. G. Devour wrote:
> This message was too big for the message size limit. I'm forwarding it
> with some edits for size... and tone. (Mary Ann will recognize where
> that happened, and forgive me, I hope! <sigh>) I thought the account
> she presents is worth hearing.
Thank you Mike, so do I.
And MaryAnn, my apologies to you for the hot tone of my response to your
post Re: Indi.
I have some specific comments, but first I have to admit that if 10
years is "many many years ago," your point regarding improvement in
practice is a valid one, and as I said in my post to you, I'm pleased
that you (and your associates) were/are running clean operations,
congratulations!
The business in Petaluma and the Central Valley in CA is indeed
different; or at least was. There were no contract barn operations,
there was vertically integrated business; Foster Farms.
There are other firms in Oregon, I'm not sure of their affiliations or
integration-association status. The primary reason for their location
is, of course, to be close to the feed source; the Willamette Valley in
OR and the Central Valley in CA.
Since including my responses within the text of your post would make it
too long again, I'll try to compact it up in this part and shuffle back
and forth between mine and your'n.
I don't question your experience as poultry producers, I question it as
being knowledgeable about the entire industry; you state you produced
400,000 birds a year; Foster Farms produces about that in a week -
counting more than a single processing facility, but nevertheless.
If you knew that de-beaking was common practice ("many, many years
ago"), why did you dummy up and try to make Indi out to be a proven
ridiculous liar for bringing it up as an objectionable practice? My
point is not to defend Indi, my point is that I object to the
rat-packing that has been going on here; and I must say that you have
been one of the least offensive, but you got me with "... proves she's
full of BS"
The other part of that paragraph that "made you laugh" is at least
condescending and it should have been obvious from the context that I
was referring to any spilled feed on the floor being contaminated with
fecal material. Chickens Are indiscriminate, and that extends to their
eating habits. LOL and all that. Oh I know it was just a joke. I
suggest if your intent is to engage in more rhetorical divagations you
do so off this list; you're welcome to email me your best.
The Cornish Cross, or Hubbard, is the standard commercial meat bird.
And as you repeat, 'many years ago' the watering practices were
different.
To the uninitiated the smell is pretty bad; hell, it's pretty bad to the
initiated, it's even fierce just driving by on a warm afternoon. And
yes the dust is a serious problem, as is ammonia.
Of course I'm correct that the chicks are vaccinated. I'm also correct
that vaccination for Marek's damages the immune system, but the
alternative is worse - for the producer. Any facility that becomes
contaminated with Marek's is essentially a lost cause and better
abandoned. A commercial operation can't stand that.
Regarding finished weight: east coast, west coast. . . I thought
Kentucky fried liked smaller ones, airlines smaller yet?
I quote you . . . . .
"I also had a chuckle at your comment that the chicken's legs are
> "slammed into the clamps". Nowhere else in your post is it more
> obvious, the emotional and derogatory slant of your opinion. Come on
> Malcom -- there's nothing *pretty* about the food-producing industry.
> You can demonize it, if you want to, but the fact is it's necessary --
>
And nowhere else in yours is it more apparent that you employ condescension
as a tool to put down others - strictly low-class, kiddo; i.e. don't do it, K?
So anyway, Chuckles, I'm glad to know there's nothing pretty about the
food producing industry, but you missed on that "emotional and derogatory
slant" part. I occasionally raise or hunt, slaughter, cut and wrap my own meat,
no
light task for an old man any more. (and yes, I even buy it out of the store,
too; just no moral fibers left, I guess)
But I've watched the line, "many,many years ago", of course, and it MOVES!
And they get slammed in. People (workers) don't get payed much to do this,
and they're pushed to do it fast, quid pro quo, doncha know?
I don't demonize the meat industry, and I don't demonize you; I object
to you demonizing and slurring someone else who raised their own
legitimate objections and stuck by their principles, and I object to you
shading the truth by denying the facts regarding de-beaking with a flip
evasion about "Beaks and feet were never removed -- if they were, then the
birds
would not be able to get to the feed and water that they need to survive,
much less grow to harvest size.."
take care,
Malcolm
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