Actually Ag2O converts back and forth with AgOH without anything added
(just a water molecule taking part in it):
Ag2O + H2O <=> 2 AgOH
A saturated solution in balance has equal molar part of each, because
once you reach around 13 ppm, the silver oxide precipitates limiting the
amount of it, but the silver hydroxide is much more soluble, so with the
switching back and forth the hydroxide is also limited to 13 ppm giving
an upper level of ionic silver to be around 26 ppm.
When you add H2O2 things get interesting, as it is a redox agent.
It reduces the silver oxide and silver hydroxide to silver particles:
Ag2O + H2O2 -> Ag2 + H2O + O2
2AgOH + H2O2 -> 2Ag + 2H2O
and oxidizes silver metal to silver oxide:
2Ag + 2H2O2 -> Ag2O + 2H2O
The AgO that you have below is NOT silver oxide, but actually silver
peroxide, and is actually believed to be Ag2O2. If you add hydrogen
peroxide to it you may get:
Ag2O2 + 2H2O2 -> 2Ag + 2H2O + 2O2
However silver peroxide is 100% insoluble, so unless you have a
precipitate, there is none there, and without being in solution it might
not react with dilute amounts of H2O2 significantly.
Marshall
Ode Coyote wrote:
There are about 4 different sorts of silver oxide...maybe 5... if
tetera silver tetroxide [Ag4O4] isn't just 4 molecules of plain old
AgO ad hock.
Why not sextro silver hextroxide or octosilver octroxide?
I "think" if you oxidize the ion Ag[-] with H2O2 you'll get Ag2O and
hydrogen gas which may account for the brown and murkiness as a gas
emulsion when adding H2O2 too soon.
AgO+ H2O2> H2O + O2 + Ag [??]
Dang! I just don't remember how to balance equations very well.
Anyhoo...most HVAC processors claim about 97% ionic silver and some
turn that around by *calling* Ions "particles"
Ode
From Mike M Oct 2003 :
Now, when you get a yellow tint to the cs and add a tiny bit of
H2O2, the tint disappears and the solution remains clear
indefinitely.
Richard Harris uses 1 teaspoonful (5cc) H202 per quart, I use 1/2
tsp per litre, and you mentioned just a few drops will do it.
So this confirms what we learned by evaporating cs and adding H2O2
to the black stuff. The reason for the yellow tint is silver oxides,
and not elemental silver particles.
From marshall and Ivan Anderson discussions:
-Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 15:20:48 -0700
From: "Ivan Anderson" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marshall Dudley" <[email protected]>
> Solubility of Ag2O in cold water is 0.0012 grams per 100 cc, or 12
ppm.
> (Handbook of chemistry and physics 52nd edition) If the CS is under 20
ppm then
> it appears that this is not excluded.
>
> > Arguing in the same vain, the reaction,
> >
> > 2Ag + H2O2 -------> 2(Ag+) + 2(OH-)
> >
> > could add silver ions. A rise in pH would confirm that this
reaction is
> > indeed taking place. However, the solubility product of silver
hydroxide is
> > also very small, isn't it?
>
> Silver hydroxide is unstable and converts to silver oxide fairly
quickly
> without any outside stimulous. It is so unstable I am unable to find
any
> physical characteristic for it listed anywhere.
>
> Marshall
The change of silver hydroxide to silver oxide is dependent on pH.
Silver hydroxide exists in basic solutions and silver oxide in neutral
or acidic solutions.
This is academic however, as the production of silver hydroxide or oxide
is so low as to be non-existent, as can be seen below :
H2O2 will oxidise metallic silver Ag
2(Ag) + H2O2 + 2H+ + 2e > 2(Ag+ + e) + 2H2O
E(cell) = 0.977 V
log K = 33.06168
K = 1.15e33
deltaG= -188.53169 kJ/mol
but will not oxidise the silver ion Ag+ in a neutral or acid solution.
In a basic solution H2O2 will reduce Ag+ by way of the hydroxyl ion OH-
surfiet.
H2O2 + 2OH- + 2(Ag+ + e) > O2 + 2H2O + 2e + 2(Ag)
E(cell) = 0.945 V
log K = 31.9788
K = 9.52e31
deltaG = -182.35665 kJ/mol
Distribution of the Elements in Product Phases :
ELEMENT Ag mole gram per cent
cumulative
---------- ---- ---- -------- ---------
--
SOLUTION-GASES
Totals 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 %
AQUEOUS
21 Ag[+](aq) 0.1000E-03 0.1079E-01 100.0 %
100.0 %
22 AgOH(aq) 0.1096E-16 0.1182E-14 0.1096E-10% 100.0
%
23 Ag(OH)2[-](aq) 0.5860E-31 0.6321E-29 0.5860E-25% 100.0
%
Totals 0.1000E-03 0.1079E-01 100.0 %
PURE SPECIES
Totals 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 %
TOTAL Ag 0.1000E-03 0.1079E-01
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
ELEMENT O mole gram per cent
cumulative
---------- ---- ---- -------- ---------
--
SOLUTION-GASES
Totals 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 %
AQUEOUS
14 H2O(l) 55.51 888.1
100.0 % 100.0 %
17 O2(aq) 0.9500E-03 0.1520E-01 0.1711E-02%
100.0 %
18 OH[-](aq) 0.1000E-03 0.1600E-02 0.1801E-03%
100.0 %
19 HO2[-](aq) 0.1951E-19 0.3122E-18 0.3515E-19%
100.0 %
20 HOOH(aq) 0.1011E-17 0.1618E-16 0.1822E-17% 100.0
%
22 AgOH(aq) 0.1096E-16 0.1753E-15 0.1974E-16%
100.0 %
23 Ag(OH)2[-](aq) 0.1172E-30 0.1875E-29 0.2111E-30% 100.0
%
Totals 55.51 888.1
100.0 %
PURE SPECIES
Totals 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 %
TOTAL O 55.51 888.1
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
ELEMENT H mole gram per cent
cumulative
---------- ---- ---- -------- ---------
--
SOLUTION-GASES
Totals 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 %
AQUEOUS
14 H2O(l) 111.0 111.9 100.0 %
100.0 %
15 H[+](aq) 0.1043E-09 0.1051E-09 0.9392E-10%
100.0 %
16 H2(aq) 0.8031E-44 0.8095E-44 0.7234E-44%
100.0 %
18 OH[-](aq) 0.1000E-03 0.1008E-03 0.9008E-04%
100.0 %
19 HO2[-](aq) 0.9755E-20 0.9832E-20 0.8787E-20%
100.0 %
20 HOOH(aq) 0.1011E-17 0.1019E-17 0.9110E-18% 100.0
%
22 AgOH(aq) 0.1096E-16 0.1104E-16 0.9870E-17% 100.0
%
23 Ag(OH)2[-](aq) 0.1172E-30 0.1181E-30 0.1056E-30% 100.0
%
Totals 111.0 111.9 100.0 %
PURE SPECIES
Totals 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 %
TOTAL H 111.0 111.9
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The second reason was regarding the ASAP CS brand. They make their CS
using 10,000 VAC and then add 1 to 1.5 percent H2O2 by weight to the CS.
The ASAP CS is designed to have a silver oxide coating on the silver
particles. My original thought on reading their patent is that the high
H2O2 content might be the source of the silver oxide. But then Ode's
comment made me think that the high voltage might play a part.
- Steve N
-----Original Message-----
From: poast [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 11:46 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: CS>Silver Oxide Formation
Hello Ode,
If I am understanding you correctly, that would indicate that all of the
silver partials in EIS are oxidized...
I was really looking forward to putting the EIS into the force field
generator and letting the dialithium crystals take a shot at oxidizing
them.
Oh well, it's best to keep things simple, just brew and use.
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ode Coyote" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 2:40 AM
Subject: Re: CS>Silver Oxide Formation
> It's electrolysis of the water. Hydrogen and Oxygen.
>
> ode
>
>
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