> Re: CS>Source of Silver Strips > Marshall > Thu, 01 Mar 2012 14:39:11 -0800
> You might want to look at the ingredients, this one is at > http://www.jamesbriggs.co.uk/sds/bclnc5.pdf > That one contains acetone, which in and of itself is a very good > degreaser, which is also water soluble, making it ideal. That > > one also contains propanol alcohol, and light naptha, which is > lighter fluid. All of these should evaporate completely if pure. > Marshall I try to avoid the SilverList because of the unbelievably inaccurate and incompetent statements made by some members. But this thread is getting dangerous. Brake cleaner should be avoided at all times. It has no application in cs. If you ask for a brake cleaner at an automotive store, you will get whatever they have on hand. It can kill you. The only thing you should apply to the silver is 99% Isopropyl Alcohol, and that is to clean the residual lubricant from the drawing operation, and any oil and enzymes from fingerprints. Always handle the electrodes using plastic disposable gloves that you can get for free by asking at any submarine shop or other food preparation place, or for $1.00 for a package of 100 on eBay. The reason for not touching the electrodes is your fingerprints contain salts and enzymes that can inactivate the silver where you touch. This creates dead spots that prevent the silver from releasing silver ions, which limits the ability of the anode to support the electrolysis process. This means the anode has a higher current density, and will reach the Nernst Threshold sooner, when it starts to produce silver hydroxide in the thin diffusion layer next to the surface of the electrode. Once the system starts producing AgOH, there is no choice but to terminate the brew. If you continue, you are not increasing the silver ion content since all the electrons now go to producing silver hydroxide. This turns the solution yellow, and ultimately creates black mud in the 3 nines process. This is a major problem with flat sheet electrodes. The edges and corners create a region of high current density, so they reach the Nernst Threshold much sooner. This means you will be unable to produce a usable silver ion concentration, and you may not be able to take advantage of the benefits of a high ionic silver solution. To make this clear, you need at least 20uS silver ion concentration to deal with the most virulent pathogens that are circulating. If you try to use a weaker solution, you are creating the same problem that your doctor warns against when he prescribes a strong antibiotic. He will tell you to use the entire amount in the prescription, and do not stop when the symptoms disappear. The reason for this is if you stop partway through, you leave a population of pathogens that are not killed by the antibiotic. These multiply, and now you have an infection that the doctor cannot cure. This happened to me while I was using a weak cs, and is the reason I recommend making the strongest cs you can to ensure you completely obliterate any pathogens that happen to come your way. This is why I developed the SilverCell process. It is the simplest, least expensive, and it makes the most powerful colloidal silver available anywhere. The information for this process is free. Anyone can make it, and benefit from the development that has taken me over a decade. I will soon have solved the incredible mold headaches that have plagued me for over a decade, and will be able to document the assembly and operation instructions for the SilverCell process. But in the meantime, I want to warn everyone against the use of Brake Cleaner in your home. Most contain tetrachloroethylene. The unfortunate part is if you use it while smoking, the tetrachloroethylene will be converted into phosgene gas. The NIOSH IDLH (immediately dangerous to life or health) states 2 ppm (parts per million) of phosgene gas is lethal. This is an extremely small concentration. Phosgene was used in WWI as a very effective poison gas. One of the problems is the symptoms may not be noticed until 24 or 48 hours later. Then it is too late. Most people have no idea this can happen, or even what phosgene gas is. The problem is if you smoke, or if there is an open flame, or an automobile idling in the area, you can create phosgene gas. This is an incredibly bad toxic gas, and can kill you or disable you permanently. I have collected some excerpts of posts to various forums that you need to review. They are attached to the end of this memo. Please take some time to look at them and verify the information. It should not be used in any process involving welding. Smoking should be prohibited, and it should be used in outdoors and have plenty of ventilation. Here are some excerpts of articles that illustrate the danger. Brake Cleaner = Phosgene Article http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htm Phosgene also is a contaminant of acetylene. Welders have been known to die from it. Here is a link, http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/phosgene/basics/facts.asp It's really bad stuff. True, and you don't need to be welding, sucking it through a cigarette can be deadly. http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=32501 Anything with chlorine in it will do that. If you see chlo, or chlor, chloro, etc, anywhere in the name of any of the ingredients, it has the potential to produce phosgene when burnt. Even welding in a commercial swimming pool's mechanical room will make phosgene. Phosgene is produced commercially by chlorinating carbon monoxide. It is a combustion or decomposition by-product of most volatile chlorinated compounds; therefore, household substances such as certain solvents, paint removers, and dry-cleaning fluids can produce phosgene when exposed to heat or fire. Phosgene may also be produced during the welding of metal parts that have been cleaned with chlorinated hydrocarbons. Phosgene is used as an intermediate in the manufacture of many chemicals including isocyanates, polyurethane, polycarbonates, dyes, pesticides, and pharmaceuticals. OSHA PEL (permissible exposure limit) = 0.1 ppm (averaged over a 8-hour workshift.) NIOSH IDLH (immediately dangerous to life or health) = 2 ppm. AIHA ERPG-2 (emergency response planning guideline) (maximum airborne concentration below which it is believed that nearly all individuals could be exposed for up to 1 hour without experiencing or developing irreversible or other serious health effects or symptoms which could impair an individual's ability to take protective action) = 0.2 ppm. Phosgene reacts with moisture (water or alcohols). In water, it slowly decomposes to hydrochloric acid and carbon dioxide. When heated to decomposition, it will produce toxic and corrosive fumes. Phosgene reacts violently with various chemicals (eg, alkalis, ammonia, amines, copper, aluminum); it attacks many metals in the presence of water and can also attack plastic and rubber. http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/MHMI/mmg176.pdf As for the phosgene gas. I dont want to breathe anything that comes out of a break cleaner can. I got it in my eye one time and that was an enlightening experience to say the least. I would like to know why he waited 9 DAYS before he went to the hospital? That is stupidity. Might I suggest some non-chlorinated Brake cleaner? http://www.supplyhero.com/_FileLibrary/Product/50718/05088_lrg.jpg For less dying and stuff. AutoXR Reader July 23, 2009 9:22 am This happened to me 3 weeks ago. Coles notes: Welding the inside of the GRM car couldn't get good penetration cleaned with brake clean and began welding Vomited violetly into helmet and for about 10 min after You try to breathe and can't get air. Every attempt at breathing in results in vomiting. won't be doin that again. Dorsai New Reader alex wrote: thedude wrote: >> Why did he wait so long to go the hospital? > Look at that guy. Does Mr Clean's hardass longshoreman brother go > the hospital for some namby-pamby reasons like "my chest hurts," > or, "I stopped peeing?" Hell no. That just means he needs to drink > an extra fifth of Turkey and punch another starving mountain > lioness in front of her cubs before he settles in for a cozy > night's sleep on a bed of aborted hyena fetuses. > Hospitals are for fairies and sailors. Yeah. I see this syndrome every day. I work doing lab and x-ray for family practice doctors. I get guys who won't go to the doctor unless they're coughing up a lung, won't get a prostate check because if the doc does the rubber glove check on them then they're queer somehow, won't get a colonoscopy, etc etc. I've even got a standard rap I drop on these guys. "Yeah, I see it all the time. Men who won't go to the doctor and get their checkup, won't get basic tests done. They won't go to a doctor unless the blood is spurting or the bone is sticking out, but they'll change their oil every 3,000 miles come hell or high water." I've had more than one guy give me the sheepish grin after that line. Get yourself checked. My oldest brother died of colon cancer, and I wouldn't wish that death on my worst enemy. Just be thankful you're not a woman. Their routine with pap smears and mammo is much more invasive and done more often. When it comes to that kind of thing women's reproductive and urinary systems give them far more grief than men's do. Ian F HalfDork > Dorsai wrote: Get yourself checked. My oldest brother died of > colon cancer, and I wouldn't wish that death on my worst enemy. > Just be thankful you're not a woman. Their routine with pap smears > and mammo is much more invasive and done more often. When it comes > to that kind of thing women's reproductive and urinary systems > give them far more grief than men's do. Yeah. after dealing with my kidney stone, my tolerance for going to the Dr has increased dramatically. If I had gone earlier, my pain probably would have been less. I still have some discomfort in the same spot. but will have to give it another year before getting it scanned again. Sadly, my g/f (currently 37) is worse than most men about seeing a Dr I don't think she has EVER seen a gynecologist. not good. Thanks for posting that link. I never would have thought about that. I don't weld now, but plan to in the future. Also, I don't think it was the BrewDude (the guy in the picture) who wrote the article - just posted it on his site. porksboy Dork You can also produce phosgene if you discharge an R12 Freon system around a running car. I learned this the hard way. One of the shops I worked at sent 3 guys to the hospital when one discharged an A/C system while another had a car running on the next lift. I just had some minor irritation that was cured with fresh air. This was BEFORE the days of ozone holes and (insert evil voice here) Global Warming. The ensuing OSHA training in hazardous materials was quite informative. Gave us many new ways to create mayhem. Jensenman MegaDork A buddy told me one of the first things taught in Navy machinists' mate's school is not to smoke around Freon or similar chlorinated substances. As the Freon or etc is drawn through the cigarette it comes out the filter as phosgene gas. Glad I quit smoking. benzbaron Reader I think if you get sick from the zinc in galvanizing they say to drink milk. Galvanizing won't kill you like cad plate. One of my grandmother's brothers was in the navy and they used carbon tetrachloride to clean the planes. Well I guess it was getting late and the guy wanted to get out early so he didn't wait until the planes were cooled down and while cleaning a plane was overcome by the fumes and died. I think they mostly use methylene chloride now because it isn't as toxic as carbontet. My Dad got me filter mask from his work so I don't have to breath nasty chemicals, tons of stuff in everything from paint to glues to cleaners is toxic to breath. A mask costs like 20$. There will always be some people who are too stupid or stubborn to take proper safety precautions so stories like this aren't surprising. "http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/how-to-almost-kill-yourself-with-brake-cleaner/12352/page1/"; Brake cleaner danger . . . deadly gas Uploader Comments (Porsche9elfer) Phosgene is created mainly by the exposure of the clorinated cleaner by the intense UV radiation from welding, especially tig. Phosgene was different than mustard gas, more deadly in much lower concentrations, not that it matters too much. They are both horrific. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmtkUxvACcY Please study the above links and tell your friends of the dangers. Thanks, Mike M. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: <mailto:[email protected]> List Owner: Mike Devour <mailto:[email protected]>
