On 12/5/2012 11:56 AM, André Juthe wrote:
Yes I ask the same question, are you saying that using liposomal form
of vitamin-C and similar compounds are detrimental to our immune
system? One should expect FDA would have been more careful before thay
approved of liposomal delivery systems if their was problematic. I
make my own liposomal vitamin c and my own liposomal curcummin, should
I stop?
Regards,
André Juthe (AJ)
I dont get the impression that liposome Vit C is bad for the immune
system, although the harder or stabilized liposomes have shown to create
dramatic if transient spleen and liver enlargement as well as transient
depression of phagocyte response. FDA is not careful to stop many toxic
drugs from being marketed. My humble thought is that if you feel good
taking your liposome C and Curcumin, then continue. Nothing is very
simple with the body and vitamins though. For example, minerals exist
in a tight interactive web of sorts such that taking more of one may
deplete others. Is calcium good for bones? If yes, then why do some
studies show that low calcium consuming native populations have better
bone density than high calcium consumers? Should we then stop taking
calcium, or instead try for a balance with magnesium and all the
others? For the most part, the questions are resolved by eating and
living naturally. If you are trying to battle a cancer or something,
there could be a good reason to take lipo C. But if you simply feel
better taking it, then thats a good sign.
I tried sending this before, excuse me if it is a repost;
/MPS = mononuclear phagocyte system/
The body is amazingly complicated. A simplistic logic often wont apply,
for example free radicals are bad, oxygen is good, Vit C is an
antioxidant so therefore good. These things are true but there is
always more to it. I just posted this copy on the DIY liposome forum
about Vit C;
Ascorbic acid (AA)
AA, known for its antioxidant activity, also acts as
a prooxidant . ... during the oxidation reduction process, glutathione (GSH)
is converted into GSH disulfide, depleting intracellular stores
of GSH and increasing reactive oxygen species ( ROS). AA has been shown to
synergize with As2O3 (arsenic trioxide) for effective growth-inhibition and
apoptosis (cell death). ascorbic
acid potentiated the cytotoxic effect of arsenic trioxide in multiple
myeloma cell lines. They also demonstrated that
ascorbic acid suppressed GSH, increased ROS and enhanced
apoptotic changes.
So vit C can act as a cancer fighting supplement by increasing reactive
oxygen species....free radicals...., just about the opposite of what one
might expect. The fact that it depletes glutathione is interesting since
this is one of the best antioxidants we have. Whey protein is suggested
to increase glutathione.
Arsenic is a poison but it is part of a traditional Chinese medicine
used for leukemia. Its interesting that vit C potentiates arsenic
trioxide. Thus a poison can be used for therapy, not an uncommon idea
in the pharmaceutical world! Arsenic may work also by tagging one of two
proteins that become fused causing a tumor; PML-RARa is marked for
degradation by ubiquitin, turning the cancer cells back into normal cells.
Following time honored concepts like fresh and raw fruits and veggies,
or perhaps the Mediterranean diet, using herbs for nutrition and
detoxification, exercising, sunbathing etc will naturally balance all
of these difficult and complicated processes.
The above description of the oxidizing effect, cytotoxic potential of
Vit C via production of hydrogen peroxide, show that this could support
an immune system attack on unwanted cells. Healthy cells may be
protected by the enzyme catalase which is often deficient in tumor
cells. So in that way is "good" for the immune system, although it may
be difficult to achieve blood levels of vit C that are sufficient to
kill tumor cells. Addition of vit k3, another hydrogen peroxide
generator, and lipoic acid reduces the required C saturation level to
achieve cancer cell apoptosis. At lower concentrations it may have
opposite effects, acting as an antioxidant, and performing many useful
functions like strengthening the extracellular matrix. It does raise the
question that if high doses of vit C deplete glutathione, maybe its not
warranted for chronic use at mega dose levels. I dont know about
liposome vit D3. Sunbathing could be a free and enjoyable alternative.
Since Becker observed that silver ions could dedifferentiate cells, its
always been a question in my mind if this could be a two edged sword. A
de differntiated cell doesnt seem so good until its re differentiated
back in the right way. Are we assured that this is the case, for
example when silver ions cross the blood brain barrier?
