Hello Ivan, Good to hear from you!
Where did you get the info about the water molecules being included in the ionic radius? When I get a moment, I will add up the diameters of water and silver and see how that fits with the listed ionic radius of silver Ions. Your appraisal of the paper as "rehash" fits my evaluation. The solvation of the ions affecting their aggregation makes a lot of sense to me. I don't know how the attractive and repulsive forces balance out. It does seem intuititivly (sp?) that anything which interferes with a positive charge should do the same with a negative. Your comment about not visualizing the ions as little magnets is well taken; there are many other factors. Re: the ISE reading: I am not sure if it was "Zero", but very low. I will write Bruce. So, if "small is better" [at least with CS...] and rapid solvation is the key to preventing aggregation, have you seen anything which suggests a method of facilitating that? How do you "desensitize" a Coulter counter? That article's conclusion seems to support my belief that you cannot make high concentration [>about 50 mgL?] CS which has particles in the 0.5 to 10 nm range. I hope school, business and family are all well. James Osbourne Holmes [email protected] FTNWO -----Original Message----- From: Ivan Anderson [SMTP:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 5:27 AM To: Silver-List Subject: Re: CS>Dr Clark on CS Hi James, James and all, > Hi James and all, > > I can't answer your question directly James, but I have a couple of > questions myself. > > "When current is applied to silver in solution the particles that break off > will always be the same size: 1.26 angstroms (.000126 microns)." > > Or, 0.126 nm. > > "Simply put", this cannot be so, because the effective ionic radius of > silver in water, a single atom, is 2.5 angstroms, or 0.25 nm. So the > diameter will be 5 angstroms, Or, about four times the diameter of the > alleged "will always be.. particle size'. > > A little alchemical transmutation there, or did the atom shrink in the > water? The discrepency is explained in that the effective ionic radius of silver in water includes the water molecules in which the silver is solvated, which travel with it . > Does anyone know Dr. Clark's source for that statement? This statement, like the rest of the article, seems to me to be a rehash of the articles that have done the rounds for the last few years. There are no references. > The center-to-center distance of atoms in metallic silver is 288.9 pm, or > 0.2889 nm. So, two Ag atoms, [ignoring effects of very small groups of > atoms] will be about 0.5778 nm in overall "diameter" [they aren't round]. > This is the smallest possible "colloidal" silver particle. Anything > smaller will be a single atom, a monatomic ion: i.e. dissolved silver. > > If it is true that the particle size is always the same why do I see, in EM > images of silver particles from a sol, discrete particles which are several > times larger than others? > > Did these larger-than-0.126 nm particles [which obviously cannot exist, at > least as what we define as silver...] form immediately from 1.26 angstrom > particles after leaving the electrode? How, if the particles all have a > positive charge? Is the force moving them away from the electrode large > enough to smash them together in spite of the repulsive force due to t he > mutual positive charges? Ions immediately aggregate into groups after leaving the electrode. The size is determined by how quickly the particles are solvated. A solvated particle resists aggregation. Water molecules, which surround the particle in successive layers, effectively neutralise the charge a short distance from the particle. Hence, the positive charge does little to overcome the atractive force between like particles, but the solvated layer does. Indeed silver does not conduct electricity or act like the bulk metal until it has achieved a critical mass of, I think, 35 atoms (solid state physics). It is tempting to think of ions as sub-nanosized magnets that attract or repell, but I don't think this is the true reflection of life in the molecular realm. Here, a positive charge means the tendency to attract an electron, and attractive forces are of the same order as the dispersive. > 0.5 nm size has been measured in HVAC sol which tests negative for > monatomic silver [via ISE] in a sol with a range of 0.5 to 9 nm, but I do > not know the size distribution. James, when you say "tested negative for monatomic silver [via ISE]", does that mean the sol had a zero ISE reading? If so, I would wonder whether the colloid consists of metallic particles and/or silver oxides. > Also: "The charge slowly dissipates, and > therefore the freshness of the colloid is important." > > How does the charge dissipate?. Where do the electrons come from? Who says? Who indeed! I have stable samples also, LVDC just short of two years. > Some HVAC samples have remained unchanged for over a year. Here is a small quote from a paper I found somewhere. I can send you the whole thing if you would like. " CONCLUSIONS A new method for detecting and measuring aggregation in the most perfect colloidal dispersions has been discovered. Using a desensitised Coulter counter to probe a stable dispersion of silica particles, experiments showed that aggregates ten times larger than the primary particles were formed when the particle volume fraction was raised above 0.0002. These aggregates differed significantly from flocs formed by destabilising the dispersion, and the term 'multiplet' was therefore used to distinguish this effect from ordinary flocculation which produces doublets, triplets etc sequentially. Theory suggested that the multiplets formed because of the adhesion of the particles which overcame the thermal energy of the Brownian motions, causing a phase separation above a critical volume fraction. All adhesive sub-micrometre spheres should form such multiplets according to this theory, including atoms, molecules and colloid particles. The multiplet volume fraction increased nearly in proportion to the volume fraction of silica as expected from this argument. In addition the phase separation was shown to occur at a particular aggregate size in agreement with a kinetic nucleation theory. Since the multiplets were also demonstrated for polymer latex, oil emulsions and for blood cell dispersions, it appears that this new colloid multiplet effect is a general phenomenon of some significance." > > James Osbourne Holmes > [email protected] > FTNWO Good health, Ivan. > -----Original Message----- > From: James Allison [SMTP:[email protected]] > Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 3:25 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: CS>Dr Clark on CS > > > http://www.drclark.ch/bulletin/cs.htm > > The following are a couple of quotes from the above site, and then a > question: > > "What exactly is Colloidal Silver (CS)? Simply put, colloids are extremely > minute-sized silver particles suspended in water, with a positive > electrical > charge. The smaller the silver particles, the more effective it has proven > to be. The best Colloidal Silver is produced at the molecular level. A > small > DC current is passed through an electrolyte with silver electrodes. Minute, > molecular sized particles are drawn off the positive electrode, having a > positive electrical charge. This electrical charge is of primary importance > to healing and antibacterial qualities. The charge slowly dissipates, and > therefore the freshness of the colloid is important." > > "When current is applied to silver in solution the particles that break off > will always be the same size: 1.26 angstroms (.000126 microns)." > > Now, once again, can somebody please tell me how AC units make a better > solution than LVDC units? > > Yours in health, > James Allison -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: [email protected] -or- [email protected] with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: [email protected] Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour <[email protected]>
