Hi Russ,
                If Roger Altman were still on the list I'm sure he would
have answered promptly - solubility product! The product of the ionic
concentrations, [Ag+][OH-], must stay below a certain value, else AgOH will
begin to precipitate. Baking soda, NaHCO3, dissociates to yield an alkaline
environment with a lot of OH- ions in solution, which means the maximum
possible concentration of soluble Ag+ is pushed lower. Ag2CO3 is another
ionic compound that will be present, but will not be the limiting factor
here. Citric acid addition depresses the OH- concentration, thus allowing a
higher possible Ag+ concentration. Combine that with the need to keep pH
either acid or alkaline in order to eliminate dropout of the particulate
fraction of silver present (zeta potential issue), and it becomes evident an
acidic environment combines the best of both worlds re stability of ionic +
particulate CS. I include an attachment originally mailed to me from Roger.
Zeta potential and pH is discussed at Frank Key's site.

regards, Kevin Nolan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Russ Rosser" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: CS>brewing with citric acid


> How does citric acid compare with BAKING SODA, which is alkaline, but also
> recommended for raising conductivity without interaction?  Is citric acid
> preferable because it completely digests away?  --Russ
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 10/18/2001 10:07:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[email protected] writes:


> Subj:Re: CS>Bubble or Stir?
> Date:10/18/2001 10:07:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time
> From:    [email protected] (Kevin Nolan)
> To:    [email protected]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK Roger, please send that material. I had assumed your classes were just 
> about establishing solubility product equations for beginners
> 

Ag+ Solubility in LVDC CS Assuming Aqueous Chemical Equilibria Exists 


LESSON I

Introduction

Chemical reactions fall into two general types, those that react so 
completely that the reactants disappear, and those that react partially so 
that the reactants and products coexist.

An extreme example of a reaction in which the reactants disappear completely 
is the explosion of gun powder,

(1) 2KNO3 +  3C  +   S  -----> K2S  +  3CO2  + N2

An example in which the reactants and products coexist is observed when solid 
silver hydroxide is mixed with distilled water (DW),

(2) AgOH(s)   =   [Ag+]    +    [OH-]

Note that the "=" signifies that all species coexist, and the "(s)" indicates 
that the AgOH is in a solid, crystalline form. The "+" and "-" attached to 
"Ag" and "OH" represent the formation of ions which are single atoms or a 
combination of atoms that have gained or lost one or more electrons. Of 
course, a reaction like the one above can be written for practically any 
salt, but reactions involving insoluble or slightly soluble salts have 
characteristics that allow chemists to make accurate solubility predictions 
by taking advantage of the unique properties of dilute aqueous solutions. 
Here are some of these unique properties.

First, it can be shown that the product of Ag+ concentration and OH- 
concentration equals a constant called the solubility product. Although the 
value of this constant changes with temperature, it does not change with 
variations in the concentration of Ag+ or OH-. I guess that's why it's 
referred to as a 'constant'. So if we know the temperature of the DW we can 
look up the solubility product of any similar salt.

Second, the solubility product of, say, AgOH, will not be effected by the 
presence of other dilute ionic, or molecular species in the DW such as 
dissolved CO2. 

The concentration of OH- is important because it is associated with the pH of 
the DW. pH is based on the concentration of H+ which, together with OH- are 
produced from the ionization of water molecules as shown in reaction (3),

(3) H2O   =   [H+]    +    [OH-]

Notice that the form of this reaction is similar to that of reaction (2). The 
"ionization constant" of water works like the solubility product just 
mentioned, but instead of relating ion formation to a salt, it relates it to 
water molecules shown as "H2O".

Water is practically all molecules. In fact, pure water has only 10^-7 
moles/liter of hydrogen [H+] and hydroxyl [OH-] ions. The logarithm of the 
hydrogen ion concentration is the pH. So, as you can see, pure water has a pH 
of 7.

When pure DW is saturated with AgOH, two equations can be written,

[Ag+] * [OH]  =  K(sp) = 1.52 x 10^-8

[H+] * [OH-]  =  K(w) = 10^-14 

Note that without some knowledge of the pH or Ag+ concentration,
 it is not possible to calculate the concentrations of the remaining species. 
In the example above, it was assumed that we have pure water in equilibrium 
with silver hydroxide. In actuality, the DW that exists after a LVDC CS brew 
has been prepared contains dissolved CO2, and it may not contain solid silver 
hydroxide. So in order to determine the maximum solubility of silver ion in a 
LVDC CS brew, we need to start out itemizing the things we know, or can 
reasonably assume, so that the relevant solubility equations can be written. 
More about that in the next lesson.

LESSON II

Review

OK. Let's review my closing remarks from the last class:

When pure DW is saturated with AgOH, two equations can be written,

[Ag+] * [OH]  =  K(sp) = 1.52 x 10^-8

[H+] * [OH-]  =  K(w) = 10^-14 

Note that without some knowledge of the pH or Ag+ concentration, it is not 
possible to calculate the concentrations of the remaining species. In the 
example above, it was assumed that we have pure water in equilibrium with 
silver hydroxide. In actuality, the DW that exists after a LVDC CS brew has 
been prepared contains dissolved CO2, and it may not contain solid silver 
hydroxide. So in order to determine the maximum solubility of silver ion in a 
LVDC CS brew, we need to start out itemizing the things we know, or can 
reasonably assume, so that the relevant solubility equations can be written.

Things We Know (or Can Reasonably Assume)
about the Product of a Well Mixed LVDC CS Brew

First, we know that Ag+ is produced at the anode according the anodic 
reaction,

(1) Ag  ---------->  [Ag+]  +   1e

and OH- is produced at the cathode according to the cathodic reaction,

(2) H2O  +   1e  ------------->  1/2H2(g)   +   [OH-]

Since I'm stipulating the DW in the reaction vessel is well mixed and the 
electrical potential is current limited, it is reasonable to assume that 
reactions (1) and (2) proceed to the "right", i.e., that there are no "back" 
reactions that consume either Ag+ and/or OH-. [I'm going to have to ask the 
class to accept these conclusions since getting into the "whys & wherefores" 
of electrochemical reactions are outside the scope of our chemical equilibria 
mini-class.]   

Second, since it is assumed that the DW in the CS open reactor is well mixed 
there's a reasonable chance that the DW is air saturated, and, therefore, the 
0.033% of CO2 in air produces some H+ (see below) and, therefore, reacts with 
OH- generated by reaction (2) above to form water. Furthermore, since the 
reactor is open to the air during and shortly after CS production, it is 
reasonable to assume that the CO2 from the air remains in equilibrium with 
the DW and that the small amount of OH- produced from reaction (2) reacts 
with a replenishable supply of H+ because of the constant CO2 partial pressure
 that remains above the DW surface.


Setting Up the Equilibrium and Mass Balance Equations
 to Determine the Solubility of Ag+ in a LVDC CS Product

I used the Internet to search the chemical literature to determine the 
relationship between the percentage of CO2 in air (partial pressure and 
"percentage"/100 are equivalent at one "atmosphere" total pressure) and the 
concentration of dissolved "CO2" in DW in equilibrium with it.  Equation (3) 
gives this relationship,

(3) [CO2]dis.   =   Solubility Coefficient * Partial Pressure of CO2 in air

where the CO2 Solubility Coefficient = 2*10^-3 @25C, &
the Partial Pressure of CO2 in air  = 3.55*10^-4 ATM

Therefore, the concentration of carbon (in all ionic & molecular forms -- see 
below) in water is 7.1*10^-7 moles/liter

However, not all of the dissolved CO2 forms CO3=. As will be shown in the 
next lesson, at pH 7 and below, the vast bulk of dissolved "CO2" remains as 
molecular H2CO3 as well as HCO3- according to the equilibrium reactions, 

(4) [H2CO3](aq)  =  [H+]   +   [HCO3-]     Ksp = 4.45 * 10^-7

(5) [HCO3-]  =  [H+]   +   [CO3=]     Ksp = 4.69  * 10^-11

As mentioned, the distribution of these species is pH dependent. So the 
Ionization Constant of water should be include with equations (4) & (5) to 
help define the state of this system.

(6) H2O  =  [H+]  +  [OH-]     Kw = 10^-14

Finally, since Ag+ is also present, wouldn't it make sense to include 
reaction (7) so that the equilibria of all species present in a LVDC CS 
product can be accounted for?

(7) AgOH(s)  =  [Ag+]  + [OH-]   Ksp = 1.52 * 10-8

The answer is no because we are interested in the MINIMUM equilibria that 
define the state of a typical LVDC CS product, and we have no a priori 
knowledge that silver hydroxide is present. In any case, let's look for an 
explanation from another perspective.

When CO2 dissolves in DW, it distributes itself as molecular H2CO3, HCO3- and 
CO3=. The solubility products for reactions (4), and (5) govern the 
distribution of these species, as well as the ionization constant from 
reaction (6). Since we know that, for dilute solutions, positively charged 
ions cannot influence the concentration of one another (the same is true for 
negatively charged ions -- remember, I mentioned this concept in the 
Introduction), we can assume that the equilibrium pH of a typical  air 
saturated, LVDC CS product which contains ionic silver will be identical to 
the pH found in pure DW, saturated with air with no silver ion present. This 
value is readily available from the chemical literature, and at 25 C, the pH 
was found to be 5.65. It should be noted that this pH is very close to the pH 
range mentioned to me by Ole' Bob (pH = 5.0--->5.5) from his LVDV CS research.

Since this approach is consistent with dilute solution theory, we can now use 
the water ionization constant from reaction (6) to obtain the hydroxyl ion 
concentration. The Ksp from reaction (7) then gives us the POTENTIAL silver 
ion solubility with regard to the formation of silver hydroxide. I say 
POTENTIAL because the presence of a separate silver hydroxide phase was never 
stipulated in setting up the equilibrium equations. However, I prefer to save 
the details of this calculation for the next lesson because this single 
estimate is not the whole story since silver carbonate can also form, and 
THAT calculation is somewhat more complicated than those I've just covered.  

Roger


Lesson III

Review

OK. Let's review my closing remarks from the last class:

Since this approach is consistent with dilute solution theory, we can now use 
the water ionization constant from reaction (6) to obtain the hydroxyl ion 
concentration. The Ksp from reaction (7) then gives us the POTENTIAL silver 
ion solubility with regard to the formation of silver hydroxide. I say 
POTENTIAL because the presence of a separate silver hydroxide phase was never 
stipulated in setting up the equilibrium equations. However, I prefer to save 
the details of this calculation for the next lesson because this single 
estimate is not the whole story since silver carbonate can also form and THAT 
calculation is somewhat more complicated than those I've just covered.

Solving Equilibria Expressions
  
As mentioned in the previous lesson, carbon is distributed among H2CO3, HCO3- 
and CO3=. Reactions (1) & (2) show the solubility products that help 
establish this distribution.

(1) [H2CO3](aq)  =  [H+]   +   [HCO3-]     Ksp = 4.45 * 10^-7

(2) [HCO3-]  =  [H+]   +   [CO3=]     Ksp = 4.69  * 10^-11

Note that even though we can establish the final pH to be 5.65 (Lesson II), 
it is impossible to calculate the concentration of the above species without 
additional information because we have two equations and three unknowns. 
However, we do have one other piece of information that I mentioned earlier, 
and that is the molar concentration of dissolved carbon which is based on the 
equilibrium between CO2 from the air and the "CO2" dissolved in DW. If you 
remember,

(3) [CO2]dis.   =   Solubility Coefficient * Partial Pressure of CO2 in air

where the CO2 Solubility Coefficient = 2*10^-3 @25C, &
the Partial Pressure of CO2 in air  = 3.55*10^-4 ATM

Therefore, the concentration of carbon (in all ionic & molecular forms) in 
water is calculated to be 7.1*10^-7 moles/liter  

A carbon mass balance is based on the fact that there is one mole (OK, 
gram-atom for the purists) of carbon in each of the three forms of dissolved 
carbon, and that their molar sum is known (molar concentration, 7.1*10^-7 
moles/liter, in 1 liter of DW is 7.1*10^-7 moles). Equation (4) gives this 
relationship for 1 liter of DW.

(4) [HCO3-] +  [H2CO3]  +  [CO3=]  = 7.1*10^-7 moles

Substituting the hydrogen concentration in moles/liter (pH = 5.65) into Eq. 
(1) & (2) gives,

(5) [H2CO3] = 5.031*[HCO3-]

(6) [CO3=] = 2.095*10^-5*[HCO3-]

Substituting the equivalent [HCO3-] from equations (5) and (6) into equation 
(4) allows the concentration of HCO3- to be determined. The remaining 
concentration values are obtained by substituting the calculated HCO3- 
concentration into equations (5) and (6) which yields the following results:  

[HCO3-] = 1.177*10^-7 m/l
[H2CO3] = 5.923*10^-7 m/l
[CO3=] = 2.466*10^-12 m/l

Silver carbonate can precipitate from electrolytically prepared CS if the 
product of the [Ag+] and [CO2=] concentrations reach the Solubility Product 
given in reaction (7). 

(7) Ag2CO3   =  2[Ag+]   +   CO3=       Ksp  = 8.1*10^-12

Therefore, substituting the [CO3=] concentration obtained above, yields an 
ionic silver solubility of 193.9 grams/liter.  

As already mentioned, another source of precipitated ionic silver is the 
equilibrium reaction,

(8) AgOH  =  [Ag+]  + [OH-]   Ksp = 1.52 * 10-8

For pH = 5.65, the ionic silver concentration will be 367.5 grams/liter

Therefore, if equilibrium prevails, the ionic silver solubility in a LVDC CS 
product is the lesser of these two values, or 193.9 grams/liter since there 
is always an excess of CO2 from the air to allow for the continuous 
precipitation of Ag2CO3 to hold the maximum ionic silver concentration at 
193.9 grams/liter.

>From a practical point of view, one can make virtually an unlimited 
concentration of ionic silver in DW. Making 500 or 1000 PPM "CS'' should not 
produce a precipitate of any known silver compounds from species likely to be 
present in a typical CS electrolytic process. Whether or not one would WANT 
to produce anything beyond the 5-15 PPM "CS" that we use (with great results) 
is another question. Since there will always be a silver particulate 
component in your CS brew, particle size will likely increase as the 
concentration of silver ion increases, and these larger particles WILL drop 
out of suspension. So the whole issue I discussed above is essentially moot, 
but I hope you enjoyed stretching your thinking and perhaps learned a little 
about aqueous chemical equilibria. 

Roger 
   
     



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