At 10:33 AM 8/21/02 -0400, you wrote: > >Thank you Ken for your input on my post. I guess the hot plate is too >much, considering I'm also using a bubbler and spiking the solution. You >suggest running the procedure longer to get more of a TE. Is this >dissolving more silver into the solution or adding more particles? ### More ions, which convert to particles. Ions are in solution, carry a full positive charge. Particles are in suspension and carry either a partial positive charge or no charge..partial in that not all the atoms in a cluster making up a particle have a charge. Ions are too small to reflect [refract?] visible light, so, are invisible and don't contribute to a TE...but do conduct electricity, unlike particles in suspension. Particles are what you see in a TE and are formed from ions. All electro colloidla silver comes off the electrodes as ions at first, then form particles. Were the so called "ion cloud" actually ions, the cloud would be invisible. The trick is to get them to form small particles.
Stirring by bubbling, using a stir stick or inducing thermal water currents tends to isolate the ions into small groups so they will not clump into larger particles by orienting them with the water in a uniform fashion. The water molecules isolate the ion clusters from each other till they form stable particles which go into suspension. [hydration] If the water is too energetic [hot] excessive motion can overcome the isolating effect causing collisions between particles and larger particle colloids can form [yellow] There is a boundary layer around the electrode where certain things happen as well. Stirring..or using a rotating electrode.. disrupts this boundary layer. Everything happens at inter dependent rates. If the hydration rates are increased, ion production rates can be incresed as well and still get the same result, but, everything has it's limits. Stir too fast and particles collide with the hydrogen producing electrode and silver particles get stuck onto the surface tension of those bubbles as they form resulting in the dreaded grey fuzzies. I've never done a bubbler setup, so I don't know if bubbling can make grey fuzzies. > >I noticed that when I spike the solution using one of my clear >(bubbler-made) solutions AND don't turn on the bubbler, it takes much >longer to get to the point of the 'wisps' than if I use one of my >non-bubbler (yellow) solutions to start the new batch. When I use a >yellow solution, it only takes a fraction of the time for the 'wisps' to >appear. ## This is because the yellow stuff is stronger and more conductive. It probably has a similar ion to colloid ratio but is stronger all around. It's stronger in the same amount of run time because ions form pathways in a non stirred setup where only the water between the electrodes is being ionized. Runaway occurs very fast within the ion pathway and you see golden whisps. [If the current/ ion production rate is reduced , you'll see white whisps.] The rate of ion production is overcoming the rate of hydration within the ion path, ions and larger particles are forming at runaway speed. When using some sort of stirring, the ion path is disrupted as it forms and the entire container of water is being ionized at the same time..so, it will take much longer to reach a runaway rate of production and the higher concentration. Timing a batch from the start is by no means an accurate way to determine PPM of either ions OR particles. > >I've read that the dissolved silver doesn't carry the positive charge like >the silver particles do. ## Dissolved silver is ionic and carrys a full charge. But ions are highly reactive, tending to form silver compounds more easily. Particles can have a partial charge but are not as chemically reactive in body fluids such as hydrochloric acid. No one is entirely certain how either one does what it does..or exactly what that might be. My best guess is that both particles and ions are good for different circumstances encountered and neither are harmful. Like, who cares what's in the shot gun if it knocks out the intruder and doesn't make a bunch of holes in the hallway. And that something like 80% of the CS are silver >ions, and the particle silver is only 20%. Would longer brewing using the >bubbler raise this percentage to over 80% of dissolved silver? Is this >good or bad? ## I believe that would be so. The weaker CS batches will be more like 90% ionic because the saturation point in the water is far from being reached, whereas, the stronger the batch, the more ions go particulate. But there will always be some percentage of ionic content. I have been unable to nail down just what the saturation point in water is...just that it varys with temperature, is affected by degrees of hydration of ions and who knows what else... and collisions can throw all observations off track. There's just too many different things happening and too many different things that can happen to draw any precise conclusions. It seems that no two batches are exactly the same...but, if a statement is to be demanded, I'd say that using cool water, slowly stirred, will increase the particle to ion ratio. How much? ??? Can't quantify the figures with the equipment I have to even see how repeatable it is..it just looks that way in that the TE is brighter at the same conductivity. > >Lastly, I've heard the words 'silver ions' used to describe two different >things. 1. as the dissolved silver in a solution and 2. as the >positively-charged particles of silver in a solution. Which is correct? ### Both are correct statements. Ions are particles with a full charge, but they are too small to be seen, being mono atomic. I believe it's that charge that allows them to be defined as dissolved. A dissolved salt is in associated ionic form..that is, the salt is ionic but the ions are electrically connected. I guess the question is, If ionic silver will disrupt those associations and form other compounds from ionic salts etc. There is some probability that ionic CS can act as a scavenger of free [unbalanced by lack of complete and stable association] negative ions. Would that be a description of a free radical? I think so. I >see the words 'silver ions' used on this List but I'm not sure exactly what >state the silver is in. Dissolved or particles? ## Ions are dissolved. Particles are suspended. The division between them might well be a blurry one where energetic definitions can cross back and forth to some degree. There are many other forces at work here. I don't have the precise and detailed picture of what's going on like Ivan and some of the other exceptionally brilliant people here...just a general jist... some sort of mental picture whos resolution is low enough to get some sort of grasp on the whole thing without going insane. There are SO many variables, exceptions and weirdnesses happening all at once! Accuracy might suffer a bit...then there's language. [our greatest barrier to communication] I suspect that even a colloidal chemist has some things to learn when faced with silver. It's not like any other metal. [A "transitional" metal makes a lot of transitions?] I don't have the ability to see faces in the clouds AND describe every molecular motion in those clouds along with all the forces that infuence them...at the same time. When other people do it, I get really confused really fast..so much so that I wonder if it's really being done. ..maybe that's why Ivan and others haven't chimed in? [Thanks for acknowledging our limitations and feel free to correct outrageous misperceptions] I hear about silver being some sort of mineral deficient in the body in order to justify it as a supplement. However, I believe that silver has no niche at all in our body chemistry..and that is why it works like it does...like a totally alien invasion to the very small entity and a non issue beneath notice to the large. What's the difference between a blood cell and a bacterium cell besides size? Electrical communication that defines parts of entity AS entity...gang colors in a given territory, so to speak. Chi. Communication. Thought directed Energy flow. ....and silver is a unique conductor...the only one [besides, perhaps gold] that has no DNA programmed chemical use. Ken > >Thanks again, >Christine > > >-- >The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. > >Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org > >To post, address your message to: [email protected] > >Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html > >List maintainer: Mike Devour <[email protected]> > >
