Re: CS>Measuring very high ppms

Sun, 12 Oct 2003 05:12:30 -0700

So, If it's 60 deg F the adjustment should still be to 84 uS ?
It's only about a 10 uS difference.

Is there a line in the calibration instructions that state that?
Essentially: PWT Instructions read..insert meter, twiddle screw till it reads 84 uS. [no mention of using chart]

Why is the temp chart even there?

Quickie test of temp compensation with sol and PWT in baggie held warming in hand... [not too scientific but if compensation works, reading shouldn't change]

Insert PTW in baggie of sol and wait for it to stop hunting, then hold it all in warm hand....

PWT#1- Reading increases by 8 uS within about a minute.
PWT#2 -Reading increases by 3 uS within about a minute.

Humm...doesn't look too good.

Not intended to quantify anything as heat soak rates may be different, but it does sorta demonstrate that the temp compensation is likely a myth. [or something conductive is leaching out of the baggie when electricity is introduced?]
More exact test needed as the difference between meters points to another 'possible' problem when using the chart.

I'll try this: [in a pyrex lab beaker]
Measure temp of sol with digital thermometer..adjust everything to chart.
Increase temp of sol to a couple of levels as per the chart and see if the change in reading matches.

That's not to say that the 'thermometer' is properly calibrated. [I could compare it to other questionable thermometers, ey?] or that nothing leaches out of lab glass.
We just might be living in a whole instrumental world of inexactitude.

Look. I'm aware that everything in life has it's limits but are still useful.
So, if elements in your life don't match mine, it doesn't pay to freak out and start an arguement when it really doesn't matter. [That's the point...nothing is "true"...and it doesn't matter all that much ]
Life has a lot of "give" to it. ..sorta spongy, if you catch my drift.

Science is an art.
CS making is even more of an art.
Hanna is subject to real life too.
..and 'most' people claim they are perfect when the reality is... that none of us are.

Very bottom line:

If you like the CS you make and it does the job for you when used the way you use it...it's the good stuff.
If you think you can do better...do better.
Discussing what better 'is', helps us all progress in our efforts but doesn't exactly describe it.
Words themselves are inaccurate.

Besides that, no two people even live on the same planet.
They only look similar enough to fool us into believing that we do.

Ode



At 08:26 AM 10/11/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi Vince,
>
>The PWT has a temperature compensator. The s.s. tube on the left side is
>the probe. So, when calibrating just let it stabilize at whatever
>temperature the solution is and then check the meter to make sure it reads
>84.0 uS. Make sure you wait until the meter stops "hunting".
>
>Here's the calibration info on the bottle label. You'll see that 84.0 uS is
>the reading at 77 F.
>
>°C °F uS/cm
>0 32.0 64
>5 41.0 65
>10 50.0 67
>15 59.0 68
>16 60.8 70
>17 62.6 71
>18 64.4 73
>19 66.2 74
>20 68.0 76
>21 69.8 78
>22 71.6 79
>23 73.4 81
>24 75.2 82
>25 77.0 84
>26 78.8 86
>27 80.6 87
>28 82.4 89
>29 842 90
>30 86.0 92
>31 87.8 94
>
>I hope this helps.
>
>Trem
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Vince Richter" <[email protected]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 8:13 PM
>Subject: [silver_list] CS>Trem; was RE: CS>Measuring very high ppms
>
>
>> Trem, since the subject came up, how much difference does the
>> calibration temperature make? I know the cal needs to be done at a
>> certain temp. Would there be a ballpark correlation between calibration
>> error and temp. deviation from the standard during calibration? Is
>> there a uS per degree F deviation ballpark error (in the 10-20 uS
>> range)? The reason I ask is that I have both the PWT and the cal
>> solution. I haven't used the solution yet because I have no reason to
>> believe it's out of cal. The uS I read in my CS was within 1 ppm of the
>> ppm CS Ole Bob measured. When the time comes and I calibrate my meter,
>> I wondered how meticulous I need to be, and how much difference a few
>> degrees would make.
>>
>> Thanks, Vince
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Trem [mailto:[email protected]]
>> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 4:21 PM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: CS>Measuring very high ppms
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mike Monett" <[email protected]>
>> To: <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 1:41 PM
>> Subject: [silver_list] Re: CS>Re: Measuring very high ppms
>>
>>
>> >
>> > The Hanna PWT would be an excellent method if I could find some way
>> > to guarantee the calibration. Steve Young's idea to make resistive
>> > standards might be an excellent solution.
>>
>> > Mike Monett
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> The meter can easily be calibrated if you use the calibration solution
>> from
>> Hanna. I got one box of 16 bottles of solution that was defective and
>> Ken
>> got one of the bottles. It was the only batch I have gotten that was
>> defective in many years. I think you can generally trust the solution
>> to do
>> what it was intended to do....allow calibration of the PWT.
>>
>> It will be very difficult to use a standard resistor since the sensing
>> electrodes are not easily accessible and the meter would have to be
>> disassembled to get at the electronics. Not something the average
>> person
>> would want to do. And it's really not a good idea when all one has to
>> do is
>> use the factory solution.
>>
>> Trem
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>
>