Hi Ken, You and I have never used descriptive information that was designed to snow people. At least I don't think so. I always try to stick to the facts as I know them and state them as simply as possible.
Perhaps we should start using some of the buzzwords and doublespeak on our sites and then jack our prices up since it will be obvious we then have better units. Making colloidal gold with LVDC is one of those statements. I'm absolutely sure it's impossible but there are still some out there that tout it. Gold atoms are so tightly bound that no naturally occurring acid can dissociate them. It takes a combination of nitric and hydrochloric acids called Aqua Regia to break the bonds and yet some will tell you that a little direct current will do it. I guess Barnum was right.... there's a sucker born every minute. Hope we're not stepping on their toes by using constant current technology. I'd hate to think someone would suspect me of stealing their idea. Trem ----- Original Message ----- From: Ode Coyote To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 9:28 AM Subject: [silver_list] CS>new contender? http://www.biophysica.com/colloidal_generator.html#Q%20&%20A Looks like a nice generator at a decent price but Gee, add a few componants to the existing board* for the extras and the price goes WAY up. [from $125...including buying the "optional" wall wart... to $425 at $100 per option?] * They'd be nuts to have more than one board design. One board that does it all costs the same and takes no more time to manufacture. Plugging in a few more componants ain't much. Hand wiring all the additional switches is what takes time. Switches aren't cheap, but they don't cost a 'whole' lot. Lots of good links to mycoplasmas and prions. Gold and 10 other metals Copper, Zinc, Magnesium, Tin, Chromium, Titanium, Iron, Platinum, Boron, Selenium, containing electronic microcircuit current controller pre-programmed for each metal. This model can make Colloidal Mineral water of 12 different metals one at a time using the appropriate electrode: ## I never had much luck with that at 28 volts and under. Maybe it's that high frequency pulsed 2 second polarity swap...which is a series of options on the pro model that supposedly does all that without them..being 'extra' and all??? Ode Questions and Answers: 1. Tell me about your generators 2. Why use alternating current? In our new generator, each electrode is alternately positive (anode) then negative (cathode) approximately every 2 seconds. This ensures equal, balanced wear on each silver electrode with less formation of oxide deposits [See #9] or of acid and alkaline ions. Each polarity of current is controlled by our Constant Current circuit ### Is that too fast? Acid and alkaline ions? [Tell me more!] http://www.supreme-greens-msm.org/acid-alkaline.htm To avoid a lengthy chemistry lesson, we will get right to the point that pH referes to the relative concentration of Hydrogen (H+) ions in a solution. Low pH values indicate higher concentrations of Hydrogen ions or acids, and high pH values indicate low concentrations of Hydrogen ions or alkaline. [OK, presuming that the oxygen and hydrogen gasses , being produced at both electrodes, are reforming into water at the electrodes rather than making oxides.... [see #9 ?] But if they are not, and silver oxide is being formed thus increasing the hydrogen content, maybe we're all making Alkaline Micro-clustered water as well as ionic/colloidal silver. [Maybe that black electrode is a "good" thing?] I need to know more about silver hydroxls and so on..anyone? [Apparently silver hydroxide...white precipitate?... is not very water soluable or as unstable as I assumed. What else happens with hydrogen and silver ion combos?] http://www.amdareef.com/ho_chem1.htm Ions are charged molecules. Hydrogen ions carry a positive charge, as signified by the chemical shorthand for this ion, "H+." Ions can exist only as pairs, with each positively charged ion matched by a corresponding negatively charged one, so that the overall charge always remains at zero. In pure water, the hydrogen ions are balanced by hydroxyl ions (OH-). Just as adding hydrogen ions to the water causes the pH to decrease [more acid], adding hydroxyl ions has the opposite effect, making the solution more basic. Adding acid to a basic solution, or vice versa, results in some of the ions recombining to form pure water. This is called a "neutralization reaction." [..soooo, adding hydrogen ions makes the water more acid which results in making water out of hydroxl ions which would have made the water more basic? ..but if the hydrogen bubbles off leaving OH- hydroxls to react with Ag+ ions...?????? ARRRG!] 3. Why use a stirrer? Research in our laboratory has demonstrated that gentle stirring of the water is essential to prevent accumulation of acid and alkali (electrolytic breakdown of water) at each electrode which causes excessive ion formation, more rapid wear on the electrodes and less charge on silver particles, thus reducing Zeta Potential. Other generators use heating, bubbling or cavitation of air to create agitation. We do not recommend this exposure to Oxygen because of possible oxidation, tarnishing and charge neutralization of the highly active nanometer particles. We also recommend to ensure that your distilled water is not Oxygen, Peroxide, or Ozone enriched. Try to avoid exposure to light both during the charging process and later. This because the electronic charge attached to the Silver atoms could become neutralized. ### I dunno, I can't make heads or tails of this animal. 4. Why use constant current? Constant Current is a unique, specific term in Electronics. It is based on Ohm's Law and means "unchanged notwithstanding variations of electrical load" (conductivity of the water). This avoids runaway conditions as the water becomes more conductive. With Constant Current Control you can program, set, control, alternate or slowly change the current to be at any level you choose and it will not increase above that level no matter how conductive the water becomes. Our Alternating polarity (AC) is also Constant Current controlled. Most generators on the market use Constant Voltage (such as a directly from a battery or wall adapter) likely because Constant Current requires an automatic feedback control circuit such as invented by our scientific staff (similar to 'Cruise Control' in an automobile). With Constant Voltage on the other hand, Ohm's Law (Current equals Voltage multiplied by Conductivity) implies that the current flowing through the water will vary wildly according to the conductivity of the water. Constant Current feedback control ensures that the current flowing will not change from whichever of the 12 programmed levels set by the control knob, such as 5 milliamperes (ma), regardless of the quality of the water. We have used our generator successfully with tap, well, aquarium, swimming pool and even sea water, although we recommend good quality distilled water. It is current (not voltage) which does the work of releasing/etching metal atoms from the surface of the Anode (+) electrode according to the current density (ma per square cm). This is why it is also important to use as large surface area electrodes as possible to keep the current density to a minimum, rather than using thin wires or rods. With overdriven wires you often see wisps of smoke which indicates particles of around 1000 nanometers (1 micron) instead of the desired 1 to 20 nanometers which are invisible. ## OK..but they sure as heck didn't "invent" that. 5. Why use pulsed waveform? Pulsed high frequency waveforms are known as 'Pulsed Electro-Deposition" in the higher quality electroplating industry to provide smaller smoother nanometre particles and crystals than unpulsed DC. The abrupt sharp edges of the pulses seem to facilitate detachment of atoms before they can agglomerate in to larger clusters. Pulse width and frequency have been carefully chosen to match our requirements to produce the best colloidal waters. ### Square wave AC at 2 cycles per second..not too bloody hard. [Not exactly a "pulsed high frequency wave form" High frequency signal on a square wave carrier?] A 2 minute interval is harder. I guess the stirrer will get those ions and particles away from the electrodes? 6. Is concentration important? In Vitro studies with bacteria have demonstrated that 5 parts per million is the optimum concentration needed to kill bacteria. In order to obtain this level in the body after dilution with the 10 litres of body fluid, the ingested water should optimally have a much higher concentration. Measuring ppm in water is a very inaccurate art and is usually done crudely by measuring electrical conductivity, such as with the Hanna Water Meter. There is no easy and accurate way of measuring Silver Ion and Particle concentration. Some experts consider that Electrical Conductivity using a Hanna Water Meter is an approximate measure of ppm and the Conductivity rises from 0 or 1 up to 30 micro-Siemens after 12 hours which corresponds to about 18 ppm. After 48 hours the concentration rises to about 100 ppm. The other subjective way to check is to taste the bitter taste at the back of the mouth to make sure that there is a minimum concentration. A concentration of 5 ppm is hardly sufficient to combat serious infections because with dilution of the 10 litres of body fluid, concentration in the tissues and blood becomes reduced to ineffective levels. Our scientists have developed a more direct method of measuring Electron Energy Content using an oxidation indicator which changes color in the presence of active electrons, then accurately quantifying with our electronic colorimeter. Concentration is proportional to the volume of water, amount of time and current level in milliamperes during the charging process. Too much current density (ma per square cm) damages the electrode surface, damages and breaks down the water (electrolysis), produces undesirable ions and large ineffective particles. ## http://www.crscientific.com/electrolysis.html Electrolysis of water will begin around a minimum of 1.2 volts and will increase in rate as the voltage is increased. Typically, the electrolysis is carried out around 6 volts. [Applying more current increases the 'rate' of gas production. At very low currents, especially over a large electrode areas, splitting of the water will be nearly unnoticeable because hydrogen will dissolve into the water as it forms or possibly make some sort of stable or unstable compounds with the silver ions. Oxygen forms oxides with the silver right away...no bubbles 'apparent'. If any oxides are forming, it 'is' happening. I 'think' it takes at least 1.2 volts to make silver ions..corrections please. If making silver ions can be done at under 1.2 volts, maybe the water structure can be preserved..but it would take a very long long time as the current would be extremely low as well.] 7. What is the importance of particle size? Size is the most important of properties affecting quality. Studies have shown that the optimum size is related to the microbe or Prion to be inactivated and that clusters of silver atoms over 20 nanometres in diameter are much less effective (1 nanometre = 1/1000 micron = 1 millionth of a millimetre). Therefore it seems prudent to provide in the water a range of size from the smallest mono-atomic to the largest of 20 nm. Since particle size is related to current, we program our generators to provide a slowly ramping current commencing at the microampere level. ## A natural side effect of having low initial water conductivity that won't 'draw' much current to start with??..don't see any programmable computers in there. [low rez pic of innerds] This control is maintained even when using impure conductive water. We advise not heating the water or adding salt, both of which make it excessively electrically conductive. Distilled water is generally conductive enough to begin the delicate process which should not be rushed. ## Which control, the slow ramp up or the max current? If it's the slow ramp up and it's 'programmed' in, preheating the water or using impure water shouldn't matter. A program is a program. If it's max current, it'll not ramp up. Since each cluster or atom can carry one unit of positive electrical charge, then it follows that smaller particles will result in a much more electrically active product. It may be that much of the efficacy against microbes is due to the electrical charge, while the silver may be merely a catalytic carrier of charge. This is why measuring Electron Energy Content could become more important than ppm. ## Lost me.. OK, maybe. I'd like to know these things but can't find any answers. Electron Energy Content..is that the same sort of thing as conductivity? [Dunno 4 sure] 8. What distinguishes your generator above others ? 1. Electrical charging current is slowly ramped up, automatically controlled and programmed by a proprietary constant current feedback circuit invented by Biophysica. [yea right..and every other engineer since 1965..maybe 1910?] This is to ensure a range of the smallest mono-atomic and diatomic particles capable of entering bacteria, viruses, and possibly prions, mitochondria and microtubules. Most other generators on the market drive excessive uncontrolled current through thin wire electrodes in a short time. These inevitably produce ions and large particles measuring over 20 nanometres which are relatively ineffective against smaller viruses and prions. 2. Our electrodes are large area solid sheet medical quality 0.9999 pure metal, rather than thin wires. Not only will they last longer, they provide a lower, level of electric current density per square centimetre, thus producing smaller mono and di-atomic clusters. 3. Full kit of accessories ready for home use. 4. Powered by wall adapter power supply, from 110 to 230 volts, 50 or 60 Hertz. or battery.ADAP-1 ADAP-INT 25 volt line operated wall adapter for prolonged use (110 v, 50 or 60 Hz) $25 [costs them about $3 in quantities of 500 to 1000] International 25 volt power supply for any country $60 [really, $4 each in quantity?] [An "option"..and not included. How ya 'sposed to run the thang?] 5. Our new generator has Alternating Constant Current control, motor driven stirrer, choice of 12 different constant current user-programmable levels for 12 different metals and voltage output to monitor water conductivity as an approximate measure of ppm . 9. Why does the water become cloudy and dark after 12 hours of charging? Usually after 12 or more hours the water seems to become cloudy due to oxide particles and atoms of Silver which have agglomerated together and float on top of the water. You dont have to stop at that point. These can be easily filtered out with a coffee filter leaving absolutely clear water which you can drink. After filtering, our concentrated CS water is still clear even after 48 hours of charging. This is probably due to the low alternating constant current charging, use of extra large electrodes and stirring. ## Wait a minute! It's not due to oxide particles and atoms of Silver which have agglomerated together and float on top of the water? 10. How do you justify your prices? The electrodes are solid thick large area medically pure 0.9999 Silver which are time consuming to cut and attach to Gold plated pins which we sell separately for $35 each electrode. Also we have just brought down the price of our generators which are also very labour intensive and time consuming to make. Etching each Miasm protected Printed Circuit Board alone takes 40 minutes. We have to etch them individually ourselves and it cannot be done commercially by a computerized manufacturer because of the unique sacred graphics and Chartres Labyrinth pattern on the board. ## The manufacturer could etch the inventors photograph on the pc board if that was in the specs...not in color ...but. [I used to make PC boards and have done chemical etching of photos..and it doesn't take a computer to do it. It might take them 40 minutes of "waiting". It's a lot faster than that at the PC board manufacturing plant. Electroless "through hole" plating now..that takes a bit of waiting...or doing something else for a while?] If cost is a serious concern, then we could sell you a kit of parts for you to assemble yourself. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. 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