Ya'll might want to just skip all this. LOL
Observed effects of H2O2 on EIS in various stages: Very small amounts of H2O2 added to very fresh colorless EIS reacts violently resulting in: [Amount can be as little as whatever stays on the head of a pin when dipped in H2O2 in a quart of 20 uS EIS] 1] A very heavy TE ranging from heavy white to heavy brownish in color displaying a central light trapping effect depending on EIS strength and the amount of 3% H2O2 used. Brownish color diminishes with smaller diameter container and along the edges of the larger container or upon dilution indicating that the color is a light trapping effect rather than a particle size effect. [It seems to me that a billion little closely packed suspended mirrors could do that] Some sort of gas is released forming bubbles on the sides of the container and some emulsification that clears a little over time. Adding a lot of iodized table salt to very dense and strong 'treated/old' stuff has no visual effect other than 'maybe' adding a slight purplish hue. [Can't really tell] 2] Fast and drastic reduction in conductivity [20 uS to 6 uS almost instantly with only the slightest hint of peroxide..the smallest amount I could physically transfer into a 20 uS quart batch.] Using more H2O2 aggrevates the reaction more than using less making the fresh EIS go from white to brownish. Question...does adding even more H202 , at that time, clear it up and destroy TE as it does after several days? [With the brown stuff] The white looking EIS [several days old] made by adding a very small amount of H2O2 clears up without going to the brownish stage and many bubbles form on the sides of the container ..but the TE diminishes but doesn't vanish. The brownish stuff clears up and the TE completely vanishes when H2O2 is added. ..unless it's diluted enough to look sorta like the white stuff, then TE diminishes but doesn't vanish. [arrrg] Possibility: Silver ions have yet to find their OH anions and are extremely reactive at that point. What is actually happening, not sure, but probably a conversion of silver ions into some form ranging from suspended silver oxides to metallic particles, maybe suspended silver hydroxide... I don't know. Due to the infintesimally small amounts required to see a violent reaction, the H2O2 action is probably at least partially catalytic. Flavor goes from very strongly metallic to almost neutral. [We only "taste" ions?] H2O2 added to colorless EIS after 24-48 hours: 1] No observable change in appearance using any amount of H2O2 in any strength EIS. 2] TE, no change. I've never seen any apparent effect that would indicate action on dissolved oxides or hydroxides in or out of solution. Action on silver oxide would depend on what 'form' of oxide and there are several possible. 3] Conductivity, no change that can't be attributed to the amount of H2O2 used. 4] If enough H2O2 is added, expect to look like a mad dog if you put it into your mouth...run outside and spit a LOT. [yuk!] H2O2 added to colored EIS: 1] color clears slowly or quickly depending on depth of color and amount added. Violet EIS takes more or longer to clear than yellow. 2] TE increases, sometimes dramatically and takes on a finer more uniform quality of appearance...a sort of fuzzyness in the laser beam...IMO, a definite improvement. Possibility: H2O2 breaks 'clusters of particles' apart resulting in more 'pieces' with more surface area to refract/reflect/trap? light...less space 'between' particles for light to go through ...like the difference between a screen and smoke/fog made by burning that screen. 3] Conductivity change, don't recall, maybe not ever checked. ...see #4 instructions for big sphutt patooie [yuk!] above. [Once was well over and beyond enough] Some factor that's sensitive to H2O2 might be involved in making larger particles that display a color and that factor, that is sensitive to contact with peroxide, could be responsible for the reduction in particle size..and the clearing of color..when it contacts peroxide. I suspect that there's a nucleation effect on crystal lattice structures going on where peroxide takes out the nucleus. A smaller cluster would need that nucleus to grow into a larger one much like contaminants allow larger ice crystals to grow. If the water has some contaminants..even non conductive contaminants, it appears to be more likely that a batch of EIS will go yellow at a lower PPM. It may even be possible that too much current density can produce such contaminants from adverse reactions at the electrodes as some form of silver oxide being stabilized by metallic particles surrounding it. I've known excessive ozone to have an effect [making deep brownish/yellow EIS] where using the same ozonated water allowed to outgass for a few days didn't. [Bubbles formed on the sides of the jug] Is the oxygen produced by that electrode monoatomic???? What if it's produced faster than silver ions can react with it and stick to that electrode, then it enters the water? Using peroxide added to the water 'AS' a batch is run results in huge shiny metal flakes and no conductivity gain over 13 uS even if it's run for days and days. Deeply colored EIS will eventually deposit all of the color onto the sides of the container leaving the EIS colorless, whereupon, H2O2 contacting that residue makes it instantly vanish. [What does that say about particles of color?] If colorless EIS is allowed to dry onto the sides of a container, a brownish to black residue forms. H2O2 doesn't touch it. If metallic silver plates out onto the container, H2O2 doesn't touch it. '*' within any reasonable time frame Don't recall exactly what happens to white and black deposit spots on a container, but if H2O2 touched them, they would not have been such a problem to remove. I did try that several times '*' before figuring out how to not make such spots. '*' is not days and days or weeks. I've seen no indication that H2O2 has any effect on "metallic" silver, be it particles or plateout, within any reasonable time frame. [ A years worth of exposure to UV light and peroxide might manage that job as the silverflake batch I made sat in the sun for that long before the shiny silver flakes turned into black balls on the bottom..and the water took on a deep yellow cast... but even then it's really slow] There is, however, a glitch in that statement because I have seen blackened electrodes quickly cleaned when soaked in peroxide, then turn black again if left in the peroxide. [One form of oxide dissolves and a different one forms. It may not have anything to do with the metallic silver on the electrode itself. We need to be careful about lumping ALL forms together. 4 or5 possibles have been identified, so what is where- when?] Humm, I'm gonna put a new piece of silver in some peroxide and see what happens. Ok done...18 hours later..absolutely zero effect other than bubbles forming on the silver. There 'is' a strong indication that it does effect the 'size' of a 'large' particle and pretty fast too. Therefore, the mechanism by which that happens is an unknown...probably due to the breakdown of some particle cluster interface, not a direct effect on the silver itself. [Where a "large particle" is actually a combination of smaller clusters of atoms held together by some other mechanism or substance that has an attractant or bonding property] Existing metallic silver is not prone to oxidizing. It will tarnish, but not oxidize. "WHEN" H2O2 is used on 'what' could play a huge role in the results. [Depending on what you're trying to do with it, of course] Perhaps, treat very fresh EIS with H2O2, then, add it to Gatoraid? There's no question that very fresh EIS is dramatically different than that which is only several hours old. It follows that the difference could be benefically applicable to certain intents and means of use. Note: Just now adding a 'little' more peroxide to that batch that was already treated with peroxide while it was fresh...after it sat for several weeks... cleared up the brownish color very quickly, previously very heavy TE vanished completely and white/tan fluffy clumps formed and are floating around...all within seconds. JEEZE! What now!?? If that heavy TE were from "metallic silver" ...and peroxide is having NO effect on a piece of silver...and the TE completely vanishes when more peroxide is added...maybe that TE isn't from metallic silver. If peroxide has NO effect on a regular ol colorless EIS TE after it has settled down for several hours and peroxide is having NO effect on a piece of silver...maybe that IS metallic silver in suspension. If the ionic portion of regular EIS is silver hydroxide and that fluffy white/tan clumpy stuff is silver hydroxide and peroxide makes it clump up while destroying the TE, but peroxide doesn't destroy the TE of regular stabilized EIS or change the conductivity in any remarkable way...maybe that ionic portion in highly conducive EIS isn't silver hydroxide. Peroxide does appear to dissolve one form of silver oxide yet not that other form that appears later. But neither form appears to be water soluable enough to account for high conductivities...which might be why that other form of oxide apppears as peroxide turns into water when a blacked, then cleaned electrode is left in peroxide too long and turns black again. If peroxide has no effect on metallic silver, the original black electrode deposit is probably not 'finely divided silver', being silver oxide of some type just as everyone assumed. If peroxide does dissolve 'that' form of oxide and also clears up color...maybe it IS that form of oxide playing a role in those colored particles. If that's so, then black oxides not soluable in peroxide should precipiate out as the peroxide decays back into water. Might not be enough there to see? [Is that a flake of pepper in there? ..there are some problems with doing this stuff in the kitchen] Ode -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 266.8.6 - Release Date: 3/30/2005 -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. 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