Hiya Mike!
Well said.....
Oh, don't forget the link that Matthew posted:
http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/members/2001/suppl-4/547-551takenaka/takenaka-full.html
Study of retention of silver particles in the lungs of rats.
Now, I don't really want to enter a debate regarding whether or not rats
have lungs comparible to humans.
However, the study's conclusion matches common sense: Tiny, ultrafine
particles ( 15 nm modal diameter ) were rapidly eliminated from the
lungs, and that agglomerated particles were not.
In the lungs, one wants to avoid crystallization, and avoid breathing
"chalky" or agglomerated silver.
Therefore, the study supports using a good quality electrically isolated
silver product in a quality ultrasonic nebulizer, and there is no reason
given to suspect that "dissolved" ionic silver will build up in the lungs.
Kind Regards,
Jason
M. G. Devour wrote:
Hi folks!
I've just devoted the better part of an hour analyzing the controversy
over "Silver particles in the lung" and the imperative of winning
arguments. I have traced the following evolution:
One of our members, Deborah, suggested on another list the use of CS in
a nebulizer. A person on that list, evidently a nurse, objected to this
concept, claiming:
"...if [silver particles] get down into the lungs, can interfere with
the cellular transfer of oxygen and carbon dioxide."
Ken responded to this assertion with this information:
An experiment done by Phalen and Morrow circa 1974? discounts that
idea. They had dogs inhale finely ground silver dust and 94% of it was
found in their poop within 30 days.
To which veganexus replied:
we are not dogs.
and we dont inhale silver dust either....
Ken then quipped:
We don't generally chase cars either, but a car will still make a mess
of a person if it's caught.
Veganexus' rejoinder:
no connection to arguement.
i win again
Ken responds with some meandering ribbing about this "winning" thing,
then reiterates his position on the single factual point that seems to
be at issue:
A dogs lungs work so close to exactly like people lungs that valid
testing can be done with them instead of risking harming people.
Veganexus now ups the ante, adding a further irrelevancy to his thus
far unsupported contradiction of Ken's contribution:
you are wrong again.
dogs are different from humans.
ok?
small particles pass through.
dog lungs are not the same.
a dog pants instead of perspiring.
i fear you are clutching at straws having been defeated again.
Ken expends an impressive amount of text explaining why panting does
not disqualify dog lungs from being useful for study, then gets down to
what seems to be emerging as the really IMPORTANT issue as far as
Veganexus is concerned:
What's with this "winning" thing?
... there is no valid arguement here to win OR
lose. If an idea presented is more complete than mine, I'll adopt it in
a heartbeat..and keep looking for an even more complete idea. I've
heard some people call that 'learning'. Argueing is pointless. No one
ever wins anything worth winning. Pinheads argue over whos point is the
sharpest. Well, that might be a fun way to waste time, but it doesn't
go anywhere...
Do some reading or go ask a doctor who has taken both sets apart and
actually "looked" and done a 'valid' comparison.
...then... help me change my mind.
Veganexus, after reiterating his fixation on the disirability of proper
conflict resolution (in his favor, that is), enlightens us with the
profound thesis that dogs are a different species than man, that
interspecies tissue transplants are usually unsuccessful, and that,
therefore... drumroll, please... this proves that dogs' lungs cannot be
used as a model for metal particle transport studies:
look you are spoiling my victory.
dogs are not the same as humans.and their lungs are biologically
different from humans. i can prove this. if you tried to transplant a
dog lung to a human it would kill the human.
dog are not the same as humans.
... and THEN makes comments that not only accuse Ken of flaws of logic,
intellect, and, presumably, personal hygiene, but brings in irrelevant
and inappropriate *RELIGIOUS* issues as well!!
you are confused by the fact that humans keep dogs as pets and you
think therefore dogs are the same as humans. this fuzzy emotionalism on
your part is making you look like someone who is a creationist.
Meanwhile Frank and Marshall have chimed in with useful information
supporting both contentions, ie., that silver particulates do clear
from the lungs, and that dog lung studies are well known to be
applicable to humans.
Finally, a few of others, Ernie, Dan, and Pete, notice the ongoing
silliness and attempt to inject a little reasonableness into the fray,
to which our hero responds:
your compariso (sic) is inept and not germane. we are talking about particles
going through lung tissue or not... but you have all clearly evaded
this issue to concentrate on dogs and cars and transplants. gracefully
concede i was right and you were wrong.
And the FINAL, ultimately conclusive, irrefutable declaration of
TRUTH!!...
I DECLARE VICTORY AS I WAS RIGHT.
Ummm. Yes. Right out of here.
Sorry folks. Not enough benefits to offset the combative attitude. The
list mission is to share information, learn from each other, and help
people to heal... not to wage and win arguments at all costs.
<sigh>
Deborah, I hope that the *rest* of this thread gave you some worthwhile
information to take with you to your other list? I thought there was
*some* that will be useful. <grin>
Just as a reminder, our mission statement and explanation of
appropriate behavior for the list may be found in the List Rules at
http://www.silverlist.org
Be well, my friends!
Mike Devour
Silver List owner
[Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian]
[[email protected] ]
[Speaking only for myself... ]
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