I am new to this list-serve idea, so I hope I have not violated the protocols. For clarity, you need to think of charged particles and ions differently. Colloidal silver should be, by definition, a charged particle, not a charged ion. The charges on the particle, however, are due to ions, and strictly speaking, the charges are formed by the reaction of the particle surface with the suspension medium (in this case, as in most cases, water). Water has a nearly unique ability among fluids to ionize into two species: H3O+ and OH-. In chemical terms H3O+ is the correct terminology rather than H+. (Most chemists will agree that H+ actually does not exist in water but is actually in the form of H3O+.) The charge on an ion is not random. The charge is determined by the willingness (or need) of an atom to either give up or accept an electron. Because of its position on the periodic table, silver will happily give up an electron to create a positively charged ion: Ag+. The correct terminology for two Ag+ ions is 2Ag+. The "2" in front denotes two ions of Ag+. It is confusing to write Ag2+ because that implies that silver is a divalent cation (cations are positively charged). Ag is not likely, based on its position in the periodic table, to form a divalent cation. It will happily give up one electron but not two and definitely not three. Based on its position in the Periodic Table, it might be forced, under special circumstances, to give up three electrons, but my guess is (and I have not studied the chemistry of silver) that this is quite unlikely. Ag is located on the Periodic Table directly below copper (Cu), which we can use as a learning example. Cu will readily form either a monovalent cation (Cu+) or a divalent cation (Cu++) but not a trivalent cation. As a direct example of the willingness of Cu to change it charge (referred to as the valence or oxidation state), Cu added to ceramic glazes will impart color that reflects the amount of oxygen in the kiln atmosphere. Cu is well known among ceramic artists in its ability to offer colors that range from blue to green to red based on the oxidation state of copper. Understanding the behavior of Cu may help us understand Ag a little better. Copper reds, that deep blood red color so coveted by ceramic artists, is actually Cu reduced to the metal state -- that is, uncharged small (very small) particles of metallic copper dispersed throughout the glaze. The color comes from the particles having a size that refracts light in the proper wavelength to produce color, known as Mie scattering. Copper reds produce color in the same way that the sky is blue. I suspect that the yellow tinge associated with colloidal Ag is due to the same effect -- the particle size of the Ag particles (colloids) is in the right size range to produce the yellow. (I am currently traveling, but when I get back I intend to look at some colloidal Ag in the microscope and get an idea of size. I will share the pictures if successful.) There is also a similar example for Ag colloids in ceramic glazes. The famous ruby glass is an example of undissolved colloidal gold particles dispersed in a glass matrix. Silver oxide is not a likely compound to form. If formed it is not particularly stable. I doubt that it will readily form in water, but if formed, will likely not be at all soluble. Ag metal in water has a very slight solubility (which I will look up when I return from traveling). Silver is one of the few elements that can be found in its native form (that is, as a metal). Some others are gold, mercury, and sulfur. Almost all other metals are found naturally as an oxide, sulfide, carbonate, sulfate or some other compound. Thus Ag is quite stable as the metal (if not, it could not occur that way in nature). I hope this is helpful. If this is helpful, I will provide some information about colloids when time permits. Cheers. Bill
________________________________ From: Marshall Dudley [mailto:mdud...@king-cart.com] Sent: Mon 10/24/2005 10:43 AM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CS>CS & Confusion Ode Coyote wrote: > Ag2 ++ > > Would that not, then, be 2 ions? Yes, you cannot have an anion without a corresponding cation, and vice versa. > > Or would that be 2Ag+ ? 2Ag+ would most likely actually be the dissolved compound of silver oxide. > > What of those magical repulsive forces? They keep ions apart. > > Water would seem to be in a muddle.. ey? The shotgun wedding crowd > control factor. :-) > [Not entirely relevent, but] What think thee of, say, Ag3+ Anything above Ag2+ would be a charged particle, not necessarily an ion. That starts really getting confusing, especially since we all know that a particle of silver that is charged should be positive, but according to Frank Key the zeta measures negative. That is presumably due to OH- radicals from the water surrounding the particle, and canceling out the positive charge, yet being around the particle making the whole thing look slightly negative. I am not really sure exactly what is going on here, but it really isn't silver hydroxide since it will not dissolve into water no matter how much you dilute it. Marshall > > > Ode [There's an ion, then there's anion...dang!] > > At 10:51 AM 10/21/2005 -0400, you wrote: > > > >Ode Coyote wrote: > > > >> Hucksters have been using this muddled definition to make small particle > claims for a long time. > >> > >> A better definition is, "A single atom that has lost or gained an > electron, thus displaying an electronic charge." [To include ionized > gasses, plazmas and such] > > > >No it can be more than one atom. Take silver oxide for example, it is > Ag2O, and when it ionizes when dissolved it splits into Ag2++ and O--. ALL > ionic compounds become positive and negative ions when dissolved in water. > For instance sodium carbonate will split up into a positive Na2++ and a > negative CO3--, once again more than one atom. > > > >Marshall > > > > > > > >-- > >The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. > > > >Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org > > > >To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com > >Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html > > > >Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com > >OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html > > > >List maintainer: Mike Devour <mdev...@eskimo.com> > > > > > > > >-- > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.4/146 - Release Date: 10/21/2005 > > > > > > > > > >-- > >No virus found in this incoming message. > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.4 - Release Date: 10/21/2005 > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.4 - Release Date: 10/21/2005
