The problem occurs when running VMS 3.0. I need to do this to prepare for the installation of VMS 1.5.
Peter On 5 November 2017 at 11:47, <simh-requ...@trailing-edge.com> wrote: > Send Simh mailing list submissions to > simh@trailing-edge.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > simh-requ...@trailing-edge.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > simh-ow...@trailing-edge.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Simh digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: VMS 1.5 installable? (Bob Eager) > 2. Re: VMS 1.5 installable? (Wilm Boerhout) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2017 11:12:15 +0000 > From: Bob Eager <r...@tavi.co.uk> > To: simh@trailing-edge.com > Subject: Re: [Simh] VMS 1.5 installable? > Message-ID: <20171105111215.52533...@raksha.tavi.co.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > Did VMS 1.5 support the TS11? I thought the TS11 came out later. > > On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 10:39:15 +0000 > Peter Allan <petermal...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Thanks to Wilm, I now have VMS 1.5 up and running. This is new > > territory for me since my first exposure to VAXen was in late 1982 > > when the version was something like 3.0, or just possibly the last > > version of 2.x. (I didn't pay attention to such things back then. If > > I could write Fortran programs, I was happy.) > > > > However, the fact that I could complete the installation of VMS 3.0 by > > using a simulated TS11 tape drive when it failed with a TE16 drive > > has got me wondering if there is a bug in simh. Surely on a real > > system you could use a real TS11 or TE16 drive? Obviously there is no > > density on a simulated tape file, but is there any other difference > > between the two simulated tape drives that explains what is going on? > > > > Cheers > > > > Peter Allan > > > > > > On 25 October 2017 at 14:08, Peter Allan <petermal...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > Thanks Wilm, I will try that out. I doubt I would have thought of > > > using a TS11 rather than a TE16 without your advice. > > > > > > Peter > > > > > > On 25 October 2017 at 12:39, Wilm Boerhout <wboerh...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Your approach is correct, I have regularly used it over the past > > >> weeks to bring up VMS 1.0. > > >> > > >> I also saw these CRC errors on restore sometimes. There are two > > >> ways around this: > > >> > > >> 1. Mount the 3.0 tape on a generic (newer) VAX/VMS system, use > > >> $MOUNT/OVER=ID and copy the LIBRARY and OPTIONAL savesets to a > > >> (RP06-sized) disk in the [0,0] directory. In a later step, $ > > >> mount /foreign this disk, and point the installer to this disk as > > >> the source. 2. On your 3.0 system just booted with just the > > >> REQUIRED saveset, use a TS11 and not a TE16 tape unit in the simh > > >> config. Somehow this worked. Also, when you use a TE16, use an > > >> explicit $MOU/FOR /DEN=800. I forget in which version, but this > > >> also worked sometimes. > > >> > > >> HTH > > >> > > >> /Wilm > > >> > > >> > > >> Peter Allan schreef op 25-10-2017 om 13:30: > > >> > > >>> Encouraged by all of the posting about running VMS 1.5 on an > > >>> emulated VAX 780 with simh, I have tried to do the same. However, > > >>> I am having a problem. > > >>> > > >>> I don't have an existing VMS 3.x system running (4.6 is my > > >>> earliest), so I tried to do a VMS 3.0 installation using the tape > > >>> from uni-stuttgart which I had downloaded some time ago. > > >>> > > >>> I booted a VMS 4.6 system on an emulated 780 and did an image > > >>> restore using BACKUP of the REQUIRED saveset on the VMS 3.0 > > >>> installation tape to an RP06. So far, so good. Then I booted the > > >>> newly created RP06 disk, which continued the installation process > > >>> by attempting to restore the LIBRARY saveset on the VMS 3.0 tape. > > >>> However, this crashed with too many CRC errors. > > >>> > > >>> This is where I am stuck. I could download the tape from > > >>> uni-stuttgart again, but is there any reason to expect a better > > >>> result by doing this? Can someone who has got this to work advise > > >>> me what to try next please. I have downloaded the files that > > >>> Christian posted, but while that has standalone backup on a disk > > >>> image, I need DSC to read the VMS 1.5 tape (don't I?) which is > > >>> the only reason that I was trying to get VMS 3.0 working in the > > >>> first place. > > >>> > > >>> Cheers > > >>> > > >>> Peter Allan > > >>> > > >>> On 20 October 2017 at 09:43, Wilm Boerhout <wboerh...@gmail.com > > >>> <mailto: wboerh...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> Matt Burke schreef op 17-10-2017 om 23:17: > > >>> > > >>> You may also want to try VAX/VMS 1.0 (or as close as you > > >>> can get to it): > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> http://www.9track.net/vms/BB-D782A-BE.zip > > >>> <http://www.9track.net/vms/BB-D782A-BE.zip> > > >>> > > >>> This is not taken from an original tape. It's something I > > >>> reconstructed > > >>> from a disk containing early VAX/VMS source and binaries. > > >>> The dates > > >>> indicate that this is earlier than VAX/VMS 1.5. > > >>> Hopefully someone can find an original at some point. > > >>> > > >>> Matt > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> Simh mailing list > > >>> Simh@trailing-edge.com <mailto:Simh@trailing-edge.com> > > >>> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh > > >>> <http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Wonderful! > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> I now have VMS 1.0 up and running on simh VAX780. Does anyone > > >>> know whereto find the Fortran installation tape for this system? > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> BTW, I also use a fine VT52 emulator I found on github. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> /Wilm > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> Simh mailing list > > >>> Simh@trailing-edge.com <mailto:Simh@trailing-edge.com> > > >>> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh > > >>> <http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> Simh mailing list > > >>> Simh@trailing-edge.com > > >>> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Simh mailing list > > >> Simh@trailing-edge.com > > >> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh > > >> > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2017 11:47:40 +0000 > From: Wilm Boerhout <w...@boerhout.nl> > To: Bob Eager <r...@tavi.co.uk>, simh@trailing-edge.com > Subject: Re: [Simh] VMS 1.5 installable? > Message-ID: > <CAHuToNY1R7G2dGaEuFiECvQQRPO3BCR5zXnyfPnqdrfqNan_hg@mail. > gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > A simh VAX-11/780 may be configured with a lot of simulated hardware. VMS > 1.0 has drivers for only a very small subset of these. VMS 1.5 has a few > more. Peter and myself used VMS 3.0 with a TS11 to operate DSC2 in > restoring the VMS 1 .5 tape. Indeed the early versions of VMS did not > support the TS11, but that is not relevant for this staged restore > procedure. > > His question why the restore works with the TS11 and not with the TE16 > remains valid for VMS3.0 > > W > > Op zo 5 nov. 2017 om 12:12 schreef Bob Eager <r...@tavi.co.uk> > > > Did VMS 1.5 support the TS11? I thought the TS11 came out later. > > > > On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 10:39:15 +0000 > > Peter Allan <petermal...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Thanks to Wilm, I now have VMS 1.5 up and running. This is new > > > territory for me since my first exposure to VAXen was in late 1982 > > > when the version was something like 3.0, or just possibly the last > > > version of 2.x. (I didn't pay attention to such things back then. If > > > I could write Fortran programs, I was happy.) > > > > > > However, the fact that I could complete the installation of VMS 3.0 by > > > using a simulated TS11 tape drive when it failed with a TE16 drive > > > has got me wondering if there is a bug in simh. Surely on a real > > > system you could use a real TS11 or TE16 drive? Obviously there is no > > > density on a simulated tape file, but is there any other difference > > > between the two simulated tape drives that explains what is going on? > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > Peter Allan > > > > > > > > > On 25 October 2017 at 14:08, Peter Allan <petermal...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Thanks Wilm, I will try that out. I doubt I would have thought of > > > > using a TS11 rather than a TE16 without your advice. > > > > > > > > Peter > > > > > > > > On 25 October 2017 at 12:39, Wilm Boerhout <wboerh...@gmail.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> Your approach is correct, I have regularly used it over the past > > > >> weeks to bring up VMS 1.0. > > > >> > > > >> I also saw these CRC errors on restore sometimes. There are two > > > >> ways around this: > > > >> > > > >> 1. Mount the 3.0 tape on a generic (newer) VAX/VMS system, use > > > >> $MOUNT/OVER=ID and copy the LIBRARY and OPTIONAL savesets to a > > > >> (RP06-sized) disk in the [0,0] directory. In a later step, $ > > > >> mount /foreign this disk, and point the installer to this disk as > > > >> the source. 2. On your 3.0 system just booted with just the > > > >> REQUIRED saveset, use a TS11 and not a TE16 tape unit in the simh > > > >> config. Somehow this worked. Also, when you use a TE16, use an > > > >> explicit $MOU/FOR /DEN=800. I forget in which version, but this > > > >> also worked sometimes. > > > >> > > > >> HTH > > > >> > > > >> /Wilm > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Peter Allan schreef op 25-10-2017 om 13:30: > > > >> > > > >>> Encouraged by all of the posting about running VMS 1.5 on an > > > >>> emulated VAX 780 with simh, I have tried to do the same. However, > > > >>> I am having a problem. > > > >>> > > > >>> I don't have an existing VMS 3.x system running (4.6 is my > > > >>> earliest), so I tried to do a VMS 3.0 installation using the tape > > > >>> from uni-stuttgart which I had downloaded some time ago. > > > >>> > > > >>> I booted a VMS 4.6 system on an emulated 780 and did an image > > > >>> restore using BACKUP of the REQUIRED saveset on the VMS 3.0 > > > >>> installation tape to an RP06. So far, so good. Then I booted the > > > >>> newly created RP06 disk, which continued the installation process > > > >>> by attempting to restore the LIBRARY saveset on the VMS 3.0 tape. > > > >>> However, this crashed with too many CRC errors. > > > >>> > > > >>> This is where I am stuck. I could download the tape from > > > >>> uni-stuttgart again, but is there any reason to expect a better > > > >>> result by doing this? Can someone who has got this to work advise > > > >>> me what to try next please. I have downloaded the files that > > > >>> Christian posted, but while that has standalone backup on a disk > > > >>> image, I need DSC to read the VMS 1.5 tape (don't I?) which is > > > >>> the only reason that I was trying to get VMS 3.0 working in the > > > >>> first place. > > > >>> > > > >>> Cheers > > > >>> > > > >>> Peter Allan > > > >>> > > > >>> On 20 October 2017 at 09:43, Wilm Boerhout <wboerh...@gmail.com > > > >>> <mailto: wboerh...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>> Matt Burke schreef op 17-10-2017 om 23:17: > > > >>> > > > >>> You may also want to try VAX/VMS 1.0 (or as close as you > > > >>> can get to it): > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> http://www.9track.net/vms/BB-D782A-BE.zip > > > >>> <http://www.9track.net/vms/BB-D782A-BE.zip> > > > >>> > > > >>> This is not taken from an original tape. It's something I > > > >>> reconstructed > > > >>> from a disk containing early VAX/VMS source and binaries. > > > >>> The dates > > > >>> indicate that this is earlier than VAX/VMS 1.5. > > > >>> Hopefully someone can find an original at some point. > > > >>> > > > >>> Matt > > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > > >>> Simh mailing list > > > >>> Simh@trailing-edge.com <mailto:Simh@trailing-edge.com> > > > >>> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh > > > >>> <http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> Wonderful! > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> I now have VMS 1.0 up and running on simh VAX780. Does anyone > > > >>> know whereto find the Fortran installation tape for this system? > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> BTW, I also use a fine VT52 emulator I found on github. > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> /Wilm > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > > >>> Simh mailing list > > > >>> Simh@trailing-edge.com <mailto:Simh@trailing-edge.com> > > > >>> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh > > > >>> <http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > > >>> Simh mailing list > > > >>> Simh@trailing-edge.com > > > >>> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh > > > >>> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> Simh mailing list > > > >> Simh@trailing-edge.com > > > >> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Simh mailing list > > Simh@trailing-edge.com > > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh > > -- > Wilm > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: <http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/pipermail/simh/ > attachments/20171105/7dc40695/attachment.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Simh mailing list > Simh@trailing-edge.com > http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh > > ------------------------------ > > End of Simh Digest, Vol 166, Issue 11 > ************************************* >
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