At 7:15 PM -0700 4/26/01, Joe Wagner  imposed structure on a stream 
of electrons, yielding:
>Hi all,
>       the other day I was adding a domain to a backup SIMS mail 
>server.  The DNS records for the domain's mailservers are:
>         domain1.com.         0S IN MX        10 mail.domain1.com.
>         domain1.com.         0S IN MX        20 mail2.domain1.com.
>         domain1.com.         0S IN MX        30 mail3.domain1.com.
>
>
>I keep mail3 on a completely separate network located on the other 
>side of the country. Normally my router table for a domain's 
>secondary has just one line:
>
>domain1.com = domain1.com.smtp
>
>For some reason, no doubt the full moon plus a cut and paste I used 
>in two lines:
>
>domain1.com = domain1.com.smtp
>*.domain1.com = *.domain1.com.smtp

Do you have any other idea why you added the second line?  Do you 
really get mail aimed at [EMAIL PROTECTED] addresses where you 
don't know what <foo> might be?

Note that this makes mail3 a usable backup MX for any host anywhere 
under the domain1.com zone. If you don't control that zone absolutely 
(i.e. someone else runs DNS for sub.domain1.com) you are enabling 
stuff you might not like.

>As chance and network problems would have (darn the Northpoint going 
>offline, PacBell DSL just isn't as stable) for a time only mail3 was 
>online.  Today I received a helpful automated warning from a mailing 
>list showing a mail loop:
>
>Received: from mail3.domain1.com ([65.105.116.89] verified) by 
>mail3.domain1.com (Stalker SMTP Server 1.8b5) with ESMTP id 
>S.0000006564 for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 02:31:13 
>-0500
>Received: from mail3.domain1.com ([65.105.116.89] verified) by 
>mail3.domain1.com (Stalker SMTP Server 1.8b5) with ESMTP id 
>S.0000006566 for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 02:31:15 
>-0500
>Received: from mail3.domain1.com ([65.105.116.89] verified) by 
>mail3.domain1.com (Stalker SMTP Server 1.8b5) with ESMTP id 
>S.0000006568 for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 02:31:17 
>-0500
>Received: from mail3.domain1.com ([65.105.116.89] verified) by 
>mail3.domain1.com (Stalker SMTP Server 1.8b5) with ESMTP id 
>S.0000006570 for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 02:31:19 
>-0500
>
>Can someone help me understand why that looped.  When the outside 
>world couldn't find mail.domain1.com and mail2.domain1.com, it sent 
>messages to mail3.domain1.com.  So why didn't mail3.domain1.com just 
>accept the email, follow the first router line and hold the messages 
>until mail.domain1.com came back online?  Why would the second 
>router line have been followed at all?  Presumable that is what 
>happened so it began routing messages to itself.

The following is a guess based on empirical analysis, not on 
knowledge of how exactly the router works internally...

It loops because DNS says that domain1.com.smtp is effectively 
mail3.domain1.com, if mail and mail2 are unreachable. You end up 
trying to deliver to what looks to SIMS internally like 
[EMAIL PROTECTED], which will match that second 
router line, which tells SIMS to do what normal DNS usage would 
direct for delivery. That is usually an MX record, but I'm betting 
not in this case, so SIMS follws the A record and gets an IP address 
that it probably doesn't consider itself, and tries to deliver.

You can probably test this theory by turning up logging on mail3 to 
"all info" and taking the other boxes offline.  Mail something and 
watch what exactly the router is doing.

Stalker should probably consider addressing this as a bug, even 
thought it is very obscure and could be fixed by reworking your 
router and (if you want) MX records. If a server's one true name is 
foo.bar then it should trust that setting absolutely and never try to 
map the name to something else with the router or DNS. Assuming that 
your munging of the names is complete and accurate, it seems that 
under some circumstances SIMS will not see that its own name is 
local, and that is bad.

-- 
Bill Cole                                  
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Geek seeks work! For details see: http://scconsult.com/bill/resume.html


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