<I-still-hate-XML-but-fine-to-make-a-point> Going a step further: if SIP goes beyond the standard MIME processing, I would offer that rather than use the hammer of the 1990's (MIME), we move to the hammer of the 2000's (XML).
:-)) </I-still-hate-XML-but-fine-to-make-a-point> On 5/30/07 4:53 AM, "Gonzalo Camarillo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > what Keith says makes sense. I believe mandating support for multipart > in SIP is a SIP-specific problem. Mandating suppport for > multipart/alternative is also a SIP-specific problem, since a > SIP-specific problem such as the transition to new session description > formats depends on that. > > However, specifying if an implementation that supports multipart should > support nested body parts or not is something more general on which the > email folks have a lot of experience. > > Cheers, > > Gonzalo > > > DRAGE, Keith (Keith) wrote: >> Well, at the moment, what I am trying to do is get some understanding of >> what we should scope as valid SIP work. >> >> We need to be able to understand why something that is clearly a generic >> problem for specification of nested MIME bodies merits a SIP specific >> solution. >> >> So: >> >> - is a generic solution already documented elsewhere? >> >> - if a generic solution is not documented elsewhere, should one be >> documented, rather than a specific SIP solution? >> >> Regards >> >> Keith >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Christer Holmberg (JO/LMF) >>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 8:52 AM >>> To: DRAGE, Keith (Keith); Gonzalo Camarillo (JO/LMF); Paul Kyzivat >>> Cc: [email protected] >>> Subject: RE: [Sip] MIME: Nested bodies with option-tag? >>> >>> >>> Hi Keith, >>> >>>> Once we get down to a decision of supporting nested versus not >>>> supporting nesting, presumably we are then entirely in the >>> realm of the >>>> multipart coding itself. >>>> >>>> Could I ask someone to elaborate on what generic >>> requirements already >>>> exist within multipart/mime in this respect, before we start >>> looking at >>>> defining SIP specific rules or indications? >>> >>> I am very sure that I have seen text related to the support >>> of nested multiparts, and what nodes are expected to support, >>> somewhere, but I yet have not found it. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Christer >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> Keith >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Christer Holmberg (JO/LMF) >>>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 2:47 PM >>>>> To: Gonzalo Camarillo (JO/LMF); Paul Kyzivat >>>>> Cc: [email protected] >>>>> Subject: RE: [Sip] MIME: Nested bodies with option-tag? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> My main concern is not what wording (SHALL, MUST, etc) we use. >>>>> >>>>> The issue is that I think we need text saying what >>> implementations >>>>> that DO NOT support alternative and/or nested shall do. If >>>> we say that >>>>> they shall reject the message I believe that many of the existing >>>>> implementations will be compliant with the spec. >>>>> >>>>> And, if we give the possibility to simply reject the message, I >>>>> believe it will be easier to get people to change their >>>>> implementations, if they currently simply discard >>>> alternative and/or >>>>> nested today. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> >>>>> Christer >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Gonzalo Camarillo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>> Sent: 29. toukokuuta 2007 16:06 >>>>>> To: Paul Kyzivat >>>>>> Cc: Christer Holmberg (JO/LMF); [email protected] >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Sip] MIME: Nested bodies with option-tag? >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> what I am hearing is that there are implementations out >>>> there that >>>>>> support multipart but not nested. Therefore, we need to >>> decide two >>>>>> things: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1) do we want to have a MUST for multipart and a SHOULD for >>>>> nested? I >>>>>> would say that we should have the same level (e.g., MUST, if we >>>>>> decided that MUST is appropriate) for both. >>>>>> >>>>>> 2) do we need a way for implementations that support >>>>> multipart but not >>>>>> nested to be quickly updated to, at least, report that >>>> fact with an >>>>>> error response? This may make sense. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> >>>>>> Gonzalo >>>>>> >>>>>> Paul Kyzivat wrote: >>>>>>> More or less repeating what I said before: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I expect we do have to account in some way for >>>>> implementations that >>>>>>> have already been deployed, in absence of a >>> clarifying document. >>>>>>> Exactly how we deal with that is still TBD. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But as we define what is required to support this in the >>>>> future, I >>>>>>> think there is *no* benefit to defining two levels of >>>>>> support - full >>>>>>> and partial. Anybody that sets out to provide support >>> for this >>>>>>> document should be expected to do it all - its not that >>>>> much harder. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Paul >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Christer Holmberg (JO/LMF) wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>> I wonder whether we should define an option-tag for the >>>>>> support of >>>>>>>>> nested bodies. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I don't think there's a lot to be gained from >>>> defining such an >>>>>>>>> option-tag. The sender should already be aware that >>>>>> there is a risk >>>>>>>>> the recipient can't understand nested bodies, and have >>>>>> arranged for >>>>>>>>> suitable fallbacks. Conversely, the recipient should (at >>>>>> least) be >>>>>>>>> able to skip the nested multipart body part in the proper >>>>>> "I don't >>>>>>>>> understand this body part" way. All an option-tag would >>>>>> do is allow >>>>>>>>> the sender to not add a fallback. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In that case we need some specific text saying that if the >>>>>> receiver >>>>>>>> does not support nested multiparts it MUST >>> do-this-and-do-that. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Because, as I said earlier, I don't think we will >>>>> achieve what we >>>>>>>> want by saying that one MUST be able to parse nested >>>>>> multiparts. It >>>>>>>> can be rather tricky to implement (depending on how the >>>>> parser is >>>>>>>> implemented, though), and since there aren't really any >>>>>> use-cases out >>>>>>>> there yet I am pretty sure some people will choose not to >>>>>> implement >>>>>>>> it (and saying that people are not compliant in that >>>>> case will not >>>>>>>> really help from an interop perspective). So, because of >>>>>> that I think >>>>>>>> it would be good not to mandate the support of nested >>>>>> multiparts, but >>>>>>>> to mandate appropriate behavior if not supported - just >>>>>> like in any >>>>>>>> other case when a MIME body contains an unsupported but >>>>>> required content type. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Christer >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sip mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip >>>>>>>>> This list is for NEW development of the core SIP >>> Protocol Use >>>>>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] for questions on >>>>> current sip Use >>>>>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] for new developments on the >>>> application of sip >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Sip mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip >>>>>>>> This list is for NEW development of the core SIP >>> Protocol Use >>>>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] for questions on >>>>> current sip Use >>>>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] for new developments on the >>> application of sip >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Sip mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip >>>>>>> This list is for NEW development of the core SIP Protocol Use >>>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] for questions on >>>> current sip Use >>>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] for new developments on the >>> application of sip >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Sip mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip >>>>> This list is for NEW development of the core SIP Protocol Use >>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] for questions on current sip Use >>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] for new developments on the application of sip >>>>> >>>> >>> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sip mailing list https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sip > This list is for NEW development of the core SIP Protocol > Use [EMAIL PROTECTED] for questions on current sip > Use [EMAIL PROTECTED] for new developments on the application of sip Notice: This email message, together with any attachments, may contain information of BEA Systems, Inc., its subsidiaries and affiliated entities, that may be confidential, proprietary, copyrighted and/or legally privileged, and is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity named in this message. 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