Hi Sergio,

Changing response routing is out of scope of the outbound spec.

thanks,
-rohan


On Apr 27, 2007, at 5:36 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hi,


 Thank you for your answer.


We are composing an email with comments about why this issue (to use the information in the Via header to handle Responses for Requests originated by a UAC) may be not a good approach and bring down several good outbound features.

But before to send our comments, it is important for us to ask the authors if they are considering to re-use the flow in a non- outbound-required UAC-->UAS Request case. Details are explained below.


Keep in mind that in the comments below we focus our thoughts mainly to connection oriented protocols (TCP).


Let me introduce an example; in the following scenario the UAC previously established a flow with the EdgeProxy

     ----flow----
 UAC--------------EdgeProxy----UAS


 Suppose now that the UAC wants to send a Request to the UAS.

We understand that the purpose of a flow is to reach UAC for a Request in the 'opposite direction' (i.e. a request from a UAS to UAC). While now we are sending a Request from UAC to UAS.

The question is:

What are the authors point of view about re-using the flow in a non-outbound-required UAC-->UAS Request?

In other words, is an outbound UAC expected to reuse the outbound- flow, or not? ('or not' means : to create another 'traditional' SIP connection).


The advantages to re-use a flow in UAC-UAS direction can introduce some additional features that can make of outbound a powerful mechanism not only to just keep NAT/FW bindings alive to reach a UAC but also to : a) increase security (proxying requests and responses at the Edge Proxy could be always done using a flowtoken), b) be an alternative to RFC 3581.

We will add more details about the comments above and the advantages that outbound can introduce by re-using a flow in any direction to/from a UAC. But first we need to know what is the authors position about using a flow in the (non-outbound-requiring) UAC-UAS direction.


Regards

Sergio


Quoting Kevin Johns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

Sergio,

Thank you for clarifying your question.

Let me try and provide some more detail, responses are always sent from the UAS to a UAC and are always routed based on the via header never the flow token. The flow token is only used for routing of initial requests
from the edge proxy (UAC) to the client (UAS).

Section 4.3 defines the UAC procedures (it is titled sending requests) and strongly recommends that the UA include the rport in the via header.
When the Edge Proxy gets the INVITE, it will populate the rport
parameter in the UAC inserted via head with the source port in the UDP header of the received packet. It will also insert the receive parameter into the same via header entry which contains the source IP address in the IP header of the received packet. The Edge Proxy then adds its own
via header entry and forwards this INVITE along.

When the edge proxy gets back the response, it will look at the top most
Via header which contains the rport and receive parameter. The Edge
Proxy will then forward the response to the UAC using these parameters
which are routable since they represent the WAN interface of the NAT.
The flow token never comes into play in this case.

This is all defined in RFC 3581 (An Extension to the Session Initiation
Protocol (SIP) for Symmetric Response Routing)

I hope this helps clarify the situation.
Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 8:59 AM
To: Kevin Johns
Cc: [email protected]; Cullen Jennings; Rohan Mahy
Subject: RE: [Sip] outbound08 - Handling Responses in Edge proxy /
Viavs.Flowtoken


Hi,


  Thank you for your answer.

Perhaps I should emphasize that I am always talking about Edge Proxy
behavior handling incoming Responses to be forwarded to a UAC over an
existing flow.

It seems that your answer is related to handling Responses in the UAC,
not in the Edge Proxy. Nevertheless I add my comments below:


Outbound expects that rport is used in the via header for routing of
responses (for UDP that is) see the note in section 4.3.

  I understand that section 4.3 is for UA behavior.

Responses are
routed as defined in 3261 for TCP.

  Yes, but in the case of forwarding Responses to a flow in an Edge
Proxy, I understand that the proxy uses the flowtoken information, thus discarding any consideration of the Via-header parameters (different to
3261 approach).

So.. shouldn't outbound-08 draft explain the case of Responses handled by the Edge Proxy? By common sense I guess that the Response should use
the destination stated in the flowtoken, but, as
outbound-08 did not formally specify this case, why I could not avoid
considering the destination in the Via-header (although it wont work
with NAT)?

Regards,

Sergio



Quoting Kevin Johns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

Sergio,

Outbound expects that rport is used in the via header for routing of
responses (for UDP that is) see the note in section 4.3. Responses are

routed as defined in 3261 for TCP.

Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 8:52 AM
To: [email protected]
Cc: Cullen Jennings; Rohan Mahy
Subject: [Sip] outbound08 - Handling Responses in Edge proxy / Via
vs.Flowtoken



Hi,


I have a question related to handling Responses that are going to be

sent over a flow in an Edge proxy.

In "5.3. Forwarding Requests (outbound08)" I read that a Request is

forwarded to a flow using the information retrieved from the flow
token (and that it is found in the Route-header).

  Now I am considering how is the case for Responses.

Should we consider the same behavior? i.e. forward a Response over a

flow using the flowtoken found in the Path-header?

  In 'non-outbound SIP', as far as I understand, Route Header forces
the routing in Requests, and Via-header forces routing in Responses.

So... should we avoid any consideration to the information stored in

the topmost Via-header when proxying a Response? (And instead use the
information in the flowtoken ?)

  I think that the answers is yes, since the Via could contain a
private address in the case of a NAT in the middle. Then, shouldn't be

mentioned the response case in the draft?


Regards,


Sergio





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